Tube Rolling w/Crack
- Thread starter Dr. Toobz
- Start date
JamieMcC
Active member
Maxhawk said:
Mine are different but I have noticed several variations in 5998 construction the closest I have is a early 5998 clear top later ones are silver topped which is one of the most noticeable differences. I did have three differing 5998's at one point and might still have but would have to check if that's still the case as have sold a couple recently.
This is what vacuumtubes.net had to say when I asked how they can tell its a 421a and not just a 5998.
"Tung-Sol (and their subsidiary brand Chatham) was the only company to ever produce the 5998 (both the top and bottom getter variants). You'll see them branded with GE, Sylvania, RCA and every other smaller name out there- but they are all Tung-Sol.
The WE421a is rather similar to the TS bottom-getter 5998. They sound similar, they look alike, and they have rather close operating specs. However, the 421a is a vastly superior tube, but considering it's scarcity most people end up with 5998s because collecting a quad of matched 421a is somewhere between unlikely and impossible, and the 'close enough' factor applies."
There was more about history of Western Electric and what not. He didn't answer directly I guess the question but seems to know what they're talking about I guess. I said go ahead and invoice me for it. Time will tell I guess.
They emailed back and explained much further and in detail.
" I'm glad that our reputation proceeds us, but I still like to make sure that we're always known to be on the level. There is one easy way to identify the 421a over the 5998. The top mica and support column has three evenly spaced separators in a triangle.
(((Sorry for the poor photo. We really need a better camera in the office...)))
The 5998 just has 2. Beyond etching, printing, boxes and labels- the internal construction can't be faked. Most of the "421a" tubes on eBay are actually bottom getter 5998s (or sometimes they're even trying to pass top getter variants!). Ask them for a photo of the top of the tube and most of them just don't answer.
The 421a comes with two types of printing:
The first is the well-known heavy yellow paint. It was an early form of thermographics, and the lettering is raised. Not just raised a little- but often enough to tell what the characters are without looking at the tube.
The other is blank. These were left unbranded for commercial sales to radio and industrial manufacturers. Not flat printing, not printing on the glass, not white lettering on the top of the glass... they were heavy yellow or blank. Everything else is rolled on after production.
When you're looking at audio tubes, and especially expensive tubes, you have more than a right to ask about its authenticity. If it is a tube I can't prove I'll give you my reasoning as to why I feel one way or another, and we can compare notes and research. We would rather pass on a sale of an iffy than risk that hard-built reputation."
"Tung-Sol (and their subsidiary brand Chatham) was the only company to ever produce the 5998 (both the top and bottom getter variants). You'll see them branded with GE, Sylvania, RCA and every other smaller name out there- but they are all Tung-Sol.
The WE421a is rather similar to the TS bottom-getter 5998. They sound similar, they look alike, and they have rather close operating specs. However, the 421a is a vastly superior tube, but considering it's scarcity most people end up with 5998s because collecting a quad of matched 421a is somewhere between unlikely and impossible, and the 'close enough' factor applies."
There was more about history of Western Electric and what not. He didn't answer directly I guess the question but seems to know what they're talking about I guess. I said go ahead and invoice me for it. Time will tell I guess.
They emailed back and explained much further and in detail.
" I'm glad that our reputation proceeds us, but I still like to make sure that we're always known to be on the level. There is one easy way to identify the 421a over the 5998. The top mica and support column has three evenly spaced separators in a triangle.
(((Sorry for the poor photo. We really need a better camera in the office...)))
The 5998 just has 2. Beyond etching, printing, boxes and labels- the internal construction can't be faked. Most of the "421a" tubes on eBay are actually bottom getter 5998s (or sometimes they're even trying to pass top getter variants!). Ask them for a photo of the top of the tube and most of them just don't answer.
The 421a comes with two types of printing:
The first is the well-known heavy yellow paint. It was an early form of thermographics, and the lettering is raised. Not just raised a little- but often enough to tell what the characters are without looking at the tube.
The other is blank. These were left unbranded for commercial sales to radio and industrial manufacturers. Not flat printing, not printing on the glass, not white lettering on the top of the glass... they were heavy yellow or blank. Everything else is rolled on after production.
When you're looking at audio tubes, and especially expensive tubes, you have more than a right to ask about its authenticity. If it is a tube I can't prove I'll give you my reasoning as to why I feel one way or another, and we can compare notes and research. We would rather pass on a sale of an iffy than risk that hard-built reputation."
JamieMcC
Active member
hdtv00 said:
JamieMcC said:
After taking a look at my WE421a and my 5998 clear tops which are branded Chatham and not Tung-sol there are some differences which I thought would be useful for you to see for comparison to yours.
So for comparison a couple of NOS WE421a and a pair of used Chatham clear tops branded 5998 essentially the construction is near identical the clear top 5998 also have the triangle micas orientated in a triangle at the top but they are a different shape to those on the WE
I suspect these tubes where manufactured some 20 or so years apart so I would be very surprised if there where not some differences in construction over that time.
I do definitely have a preference for the the older 5998 clear tops.
WE 421a
Chatham 5998
5998 triangle orientation note shape of top mica and support column has three evenly spaced separators in a triangle.
View of top mica shape on the WE
The bottom getters on my WE421a are also round and different to the 5998 clear top
Oblong getters on the 5998 branded tube
Lastly the domino holes in the plates look slightly larger on the WE
Thanks for taking the time and effort appreciated. Well now I look EVERY ebay listed 421a has the curved micas just like your photos. The one they're trying to sell me does NOT look like any pic from ebay or yours shape wise, the one they're selling is shaped just like your 5998.
See the 421a they're selling me(the top attachment) is shape of your 5998. But I found another pic of Western Electric but it's labeled BOTH 5998/421a(bottom attachment) and looks totally legit but it does has same 5998 shape. So maybe it's more like a 5998 than true 421a. I haven't got the tube yet I just paid for it they haven't shipped it yet. Man this is way harder than it should be , thanks for all your help. I honestly really don't know what to do.
See the 421a they're selling me(the top attachment) is shape of your 5998. But I found another pic of Western Electric but it's labeled BOTH 5998/421a(bottom attachment) and looks totally legit but it does has same 5998 shape. So maybe it's more like a 5998 than true 421a. I haven't got the tube yet I just paid for it they haven't shipped it yet. Man this is way harder than it should be , thanks for all your help. I honestly really don't know what to do.
Attachments
I've always preferred sniping eBay listings for good tubes at fair prices. We're bottlehead, not financial speculators!
This reminds me of when I was the highest bidder on a GEC brown base, with a bid of $7.99 and just 1 hour left. Once it hit the 15 min remaining mark the bidding soared to $135. One day I'll get the Brown base or WE421A for a sniper's price
This reminds me of when I was the highest bidder on a GEC brown base, with a bid of $7.99 and just 1 hour left. Once it hit the 15 min remaining mark the bidding soared to $135. One day I'll get the Brown base or WE421A for a sniper's price
Yep right paying that much on speculation plus the facts don't add up for me. What they have is unlabeled and it looks EXACTLY like that Catham 5998. It has same rectangle mica's it has same rectangle bottom getter at is too. But every 421A labeled clearly or partial that you showed and every single one on ebay the Mica was Oblong on each and every one. Plus I see that round getter like shown by JamieMcC. So thanks for input I think that's enough proof right there it's not a true 421A or at least its some crazy hybrid like that one I've seen before labeled Western Electric 5998/421A it looks legit but it doesn't look like the normal 421A's.
EDIT I did find some with non round getters that have legit full labels. So that's ok but still every single one I have found has oblong mica's, which is about 8 or more total I've seen.
EDIT I did find some with non round getters that have legit full labels. So that's ok but still every single one I have found has oblong mica's, which is about 8 or more total I've seen.
Hornet900
New member
these have just come on ebay uk from a tube dealer, they look very old gec
very high prices but I just might buy one for my collection...yes I'm mad!
I''ve not heard the gec before and just saved myself £300 buying a different sound bar for my tv
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/COLOMOR-VALVES-TUBES-COMPONENTS/_i.html?_nkw=GEC+6AS7G&submit=Search&_sid=18843948
is there a difference in the pan getters and retangular getters ? with sound ,, don't suppose anyone knows?
also how do I know whats best with the test readings? ...I can never understand it , would the lowest numbers in the test be the ones to go for with this guys testing method? best buy and closest match of numbers
the other week a german seller was selling 6 tubes starting at 99p..... 4 of them were gec curved bases nos , he didn;t even know the value till I ask to buy one and told him.
they sold for under £400
very high prices but I just might buy one for my collection...yes I'm mad!
I''ve not heard the gec before and just saved myself £300 buying a different sound bar for my tv
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/COLOMOR-VALVES-TUBES-COMPONENTS/_i.html?_nkw=GEC+6AS7G&submit=Search&_sid=18843948
is there a difference in the pan getters and retangular getters ? with sound ,, don't suppose anyone knows?
also how do I know whats best with the test readings? ...I can never understand it , would the lowest numbers in the test be the ones to go for with this guys testing method? best buy and closest match of numbers
the other week a german seller was selling 6 tubes starting at 99p..... 4 of them were gec curved bases nos , he didn;t even know the value till I ask to buy one and told him.
they sold for under £400
Hornet900
New member
well I couldnt wait ;D I bought this one
A1834 6AS7G GEC PAN GETTER BROWN CURVED BASE NEW OLD STOCK VALVE TUBE
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371292862779?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D371292862779%26_rdc%3D1
A1834 6AS7 GEC
PAN GETTER
CURVED BROWN BASE
BLACK PLATE
DATE CODE:
HG
NEW OLD STOCK
ELECTRONIC VALVE / TUBE
FULLY TESTED
IA:50 GM:5.2 @-31VG
IA:50 GM:5.3 @-32 VG
£210 smackeroonies
A1834 6AS7G GEC PAN GETTER BROWN CURVED BASE NEW OLD STOCK VALVE TUBE
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371292862779?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D371292862779%26_rdc%3D1
A1834 6AS7 GEC
PAN GETTER
CURVED BROWN BASE
BLACK PLATE
DATE CODE:
HG
NEW OLD STOCK
ELECTRONIC VALVE / TUBE
FULLY TESTED
IA:50 GM:5.2 @-31VG
IA:50 GM:5.3 @-32 VG
£210 smackeroonies
Hornet900
New member
the ad , went for £430 after i told the guy he updated the pictures with the tubes out the boxes :-* im too honest
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/9-x-AS7G-Rohre-Tubes-GEC-RCA-unbenutzt-NOS-448-/201306570607?nma=true&si=omxC%252BKI%252BrWrUmJLowpQ6upLwbVI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
I get a prize for the most expensive gec tube then ?
have to get a 421a now if I really like the gec I'll buy another one and keep this for my collection ...the madness
JamieMcC
Active member
Hornet900 said:
after i told the guy he updated the pictures with the tubes out the boxes :-* im too honest
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/9-x-AS7G-Rohre-Tubes-GEC-RCA-unbenutzt-NOS-448-/201306570607?nma=true&si=omxC%252BKI%252BrWrUmJLowpQ6upLwbVI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
I get a prize for the most expensive gec tube then ?
if I really like the gec I'll buy another one and keep this for my collection ...the madness
I've had to much Sex of late so dug out my GEC today and am chilling out with a little Crack usage and the GEC is hitting the spot.. its got me wondering about the midrange on the Mainline which is rumoured to be a bit special...
I've been deliberately avoiding looking at the delivery status page.
Well excited as usual I'll bring some life into this thread haha. Just won auction for a Western Electric 421A that does have it's writing clear enough to tell it's legit. Described as
"This may be the ugliest Western Electric tube I have ever had. The base is dirty and most of the writing is gone - I have not cleaned it for fear of removing what writing is there. This is a 421A Dual Triode in excellent working condition. I cannot read the date code. It is a black plate version.
My Hickok tester decided to completely stop working recently, so I tested this on a B&K that give your percentage of mutual conductance spec. Both triodes on this one test identical at 120% of spec when tested as a 6AS7. No gas, no shorts.
I will guarantee this tube to be good, but will leave it to the new owner to clean it up. This is a good way to get an excellent sounding tube a a very good price."
Got it for $197.50 shipped. That's at least decent yeah? Any thoughts or worries anyone.
"This may be the ugliest Western Electric tube I have ever had. The base is dirty and most of the writing is gone - I have not cleaned it for fear of removing what writing is there. This is a 421A Dual Triode in excellent working condition. I cannot read the date code. It is a black plate version.
My Hickok tester decided to completely stop working recently, so I tested this on a B&K that give your percentage of mutual conductance spec. Both triodes on this one test identical at 120% of spec when tested as a 6AS7. No gas, no shorts.
I will guarantee this tube to be good, but will leave it to the new owner to clean it up. This is a good way to get an excellent sounding tube a a very good price."
Got it for $197.50 shipped. That's at least decent yeah? Any thoughts or worries anyone.
