Tube Rolling w/Crack
- Thread starter Dr. Toobz
- Start date
dwilli852 said:
Related to your other post as well ... I have a few Amperex Holland (Herleen) 12AU7's and they are probably my favorite 12AU7's for Crack. Maybe not exactly your Hamburg Amperex but I bet it shares similiar sonics so I think I understand your liking this tube. And I agree, they sound great with the RCA 6AS7's ... or atleast my Herleen tubes do. Also great with the 5998 so hopefully you can find one and see, or hear, for yourself. Those 5998's were always a bit elusive from what I understand but really elusive lately. I was fortunate to find the ones I have when I did. All mine were purchased as used but 2 of the 3 that I have were tested as new and even look like they could have been NOS. The 3rd had a bit of use but still tests very strong (emission tester anyway) and sounds great. They are all different ... same dimpled plates as all of them but different getter (top, bottom). They all sound the same, regardless. To my ear anyway. Im sure you'll find one or two. I got lucky when I found mine.
I've always had good luck with ebay 12au7's but I've just had my 3rd 5998 refunded for having a weak right channel. For all the trouble I wish I had just bought a 421a from a more reliable source. The two are very similar, but to my limited experience, the 421a is slightly more transparent while the 5998 has a slightly bigger presentation (perhaps more bass impact?). Hopefully I will be comparing again soon. 4th time a charmer I hope, as its on its way!
I've noticed that output tube rolling has tended to be more of a crapshoot than the driver. Case in point: I bought two NOS 6AS7G tubes on eBay and both hum and/or emit a high-order harmonic of 60Hz hum - one noticeably - and that was followed by a 7236 that had no cathode emission. The 5998 I owned before that was very microphonic. Turns out the quietest and most reliable tube I've found so far was the original, lowly 6080 supplied with the kit. It's dead quiet - but seems to be a bit bland or lacking in character compared to other tubes I've tried.
nick-seattle
New member
I actually had a fairly good experience with output tubes on Ebay. I got all the tubes mentioned before (about 10 in total) without any problems. I was about to return GB 6080 due to crackling noise in one of the channels, but after I contacted seller, I figured out that the noise was coming from driver tube - the seller was very relieved 
. Even the 5998s that I got recently which were listed as weak are performing admirably and test quite well. Ebay is definitely a lottery, but with protection
. Even the 5998s that I got recently which were listed as weak are performing admirably and test quite well. Ebay is definitely a lottery, but with protection nick-seattle
New member
Here is an interesting tube that I recently found by accident. Sylvania JHS 12au7 Black Plates. It's the 12au7 version not the 5814 - 5814 has a different plate structure. I rolled that tube yesterday and compared this to JHS 5814 & JHS 6183 - all black plates. This tube won hand down. Very creamy and lushes sound with superb bass. I couldn't find info about that tube anywhere, so want to share my finding with the community. A very cool, cheap and unique tube. I rolled with along with CBS-Hytron 5814 from 1954 - and this one won Not just me, but I tried this with a few friends as well, all of them agreed in the blind testing that JHS 12au7 is more creamy and has more body.
If you are interested in the full review (it has a large picture) - you know where to find it
http://tubemaze.info/sylvania-jhs-12au7-black-plates/
Not just me, but I tried this with a few friends as well, all of them agreed in the blind testing that JHS 12au7 is more creamy and has more body.If you are interested in the full review (it has a large picture) - you know where to find it
http://tubemaze.info/sylvania-jhs-12au7-black-plates/
Paul Joppa
Moderator
A quick note here; many tubes are available as used, and are often tested for emission. Low emission would be a problem if you were pushing the limit on current. Specs are variable but I see 125mA for a 6080WA and 140mA for a 5998A. Crack only needs 30mA; even our experimental high-current Crack is running 60mA or less.
I'm not saying every weak tube will still sound good, just that it's always worth actually listening before making judgements.
I'm not saying every weak tube will still sound good, just that it's always worth actually listening before making judgements.
nick-seattle
New member
Paul Joppa said:
Ahh. So that makes a lot of sense. Even more savings with Crack!!! What about Driver tube? How hard is it being pushed? I definitely see immediate issues with tubes with emission below 85%.
nick-seattle
New member
I finally got my hands on Amperex 7316 - the legend, the "holly grail", the ultimate tube, the ... Not to me. There are equal tubes and tubes that do a better job in some areas. See the full review: http://tubemaze.info/amprex-7316-short-plates
Note: This is my personal OPINION based on rolling over 110 tubes in Crack
Note: This is my personal OPINION based on rolling over 110 tubes in Crack
nick-seattle said:I finally got my hands on Amperex 7316 - the legend, the "holly grail", the ultimate tube, the ... Not to me. There are equal tubes and tubes that do a better job in some areas. See the full review: http://tubemaze.info/amprex-7316-short-plates
Note: This is my personal OPINION based on rolling over 110 tubes in Crack
I actually feel the same way, so much hype for this tube, but I don't think it's all that special. Overall too bright for my tastes, but then again I do use dt880s which are fairly bright phones to begin with.
Anyway, I only paid 5$ for my 7316, so no big loss there. ;D
nick-seattle
New member
BNAL said:
I have one coming from Ukraine in about a week or two. From what I've read Tangsram is even better than Phillips. Stay tuned. I will report as soon I as I get it and go through a burn in period.
BNAL said:
Let me know if you need some, I have quite a few of them (about 20!) - got carried away
I can sell them for $20 for 2 including shipping.I'm with ya, this is a great tube but I prefer the late 50's amperex bb w/ long plates and foil...or the siemens chrome...nick-seattle said:I finally got my hands on Amperex 7316 - the legend, the "holly grail", the ultimate tube, the ... Not to me. There are equal tubes and tubes that do a better job in some areas. See the full review: http://tubemaze.info/amprex-7316-short-plates
Note: This is my personal OPINION based on rolling over 110 tubes in Crack
nick-seattle
New member
jrihs said:
So yesterday at around 2 am in the morning
, I was able to get my hands on a pair of the 50's Amperex 7316 BB Long Plates and foil !!! Can't wait to get that tube - that should be interesting... because 12au7 Amperex BB Long Plates and foil is absolutely my favorite tube. I haven't had a chance to get my hands on Siemens Chrome, but I've read a lot of very great reviews about the tube. the time will come for that tube as well nick-seattle
New member
Reporting back now that I had a chance to to listen to Amperex 7316 Long Plates with D-getter Foil, I have to say - DARN!!! that tube is the best thing that I've ever had a pleasure to listen to - just remember that I tried pretty much every tube type out there. I played for about 2 hours flipping between Amperex 12au7 BB Long Foil and that tube and at first it was not very obvious that 7316 was better, but the more I listened to that tube the less I wanted to listen to 12au7 (remember I was in love with 12au7 - love is such a flimsy thing So two hours later with my ears bleeding - wait - I meant my ears smiling with pleasure - it was hands down 7316. The amount of undertones that tube communicated was just phenomenal and the gentleness that it carried female voice with was just unbelievable - amount of details was also through the roof - there were passages in songs that I listened to for 200-300 times that I didn't hear before!!!! It appears that there is more air to the sound of 7316 and bass is more balanced than 12au7 (some of you might be disappointed by the fact, since the bass is not superbly pronounced - like it is in Mullard or RCA BP - it's lighter and IMHO is much more balanced). So there, if you come across a pair at 2 am in the morning for a great price, take it!!! This will be the last tube you will be rolling
Update: Interestingly enough, after the listening session, we did blind testing, between Mullard 12au7 LP, Amperex 12au7 LP and Amperex 7316 LP. It was extremely easy to separate both Amperexes and Mullard - proving that despite some opinions that 12au7 & 7316 from the same era (both tubes were from Harleen factory made in 1958) sound the same - they sound very differently.
So two hours later with my ears bleeding - wait - I meant my ears smiling with pleasure - it was hands down 7316. The amount of undertones that tube communicated was just phenomenal and the gentleness that it carried female voice with was just unbelievable - amount of details was also through the roof - there were passages in songs that I listened to for 200-300 times that I didn't hear before!!!! It appears that there is more air to the sound of 7316 and bass is more balanced than 12au7 (some of you might be disappointed by the fact, since the bass is not superbly pronounced - like it is in Mullard or RCA BP - it's lighter and IMHO is much more balanced). So there, if you come across a pair at 2 am in the morning for a great price, take it!!! This will be the last tube you will be rolling Update: Interestingly enough, after the listening session, we did blind testing, between Mullard 12au7 LP, Amperex 12au7 LP and Amperex 7316 LP. It was extremely easy to separate both Amperexes and Mullard - proving that despite some opinions that 12au7 & 7316 from the same era (both tubes were from Harleen factory made in 1958) sound the same - they sound very differently.
Just got 12au7 RCA clear tops and really like them. They let the music through. It reminds me of the Mazda tube. I also got the Control 7236. This is a nice sounding tube as well. I had it paired with the Mullard 4003 and found it to be a little to tubie. The RCA works well with the 7236, but I want to try the Mazda with it. I'm thinkling this would also be a good combination.
I want to let people understand that I'm not analytical about my observations. In the past I would listen to the same tracks over and over to determine what I thought sounded better. Now I want to see if I'm just enjoying the music. Maybe after 30 years of listening to the equipment I'm actually listening to the music.
I do so enjoy building these great bottlehead kits, and now understand that the music and the building are to different enjoyments and passions.
I want to let people understand that I'm not analytical about my observations. In the past I would listen to the same tracks over and over to determine what I thought sounded better. Now I want to see if I'm just enjoying the music. Maybe after 30 years of listening to the equipment I'm actually listening to the music.
I do so enjoy building these great bottlehead kits, and now understand that the music and the building are to different enjoyments and passions.
nick-seattle
New member
Another interesting find for the amp - RCA 6189 3 mica black plates. Very open, inviting sound - the richness of black plates and superb amount of details - very low distortion. I've read somewhere that 6189 was an answer to e82cc from Europe. Can anybody confirm this?
