300b upgrade?

[ArtnShit]

Hi All,

I was wondering if there’s any newer experience using Elrog’s er300b tubes in the Kaiju? I have found some info on the board about them having shorter lives, but was wondering if that’s changed now that they’ve been in production longer. I am also using a BeePre2 and if there’s any recs for tube upgrades for that, I would love some!

Additionally, would I need to make any changes to the circuit to use them?

Thanks!

 

[dth31]

Since Thomas Mayer took over the company many years ago, there have been no more complaints about the quality of the Elrog 300B.  The price?  Welll, that is another matter.

 

[Paul Birkeland]

Our circuits don't stress 300Bs (the BeePre especially), so there are no issues there. 

The slight trade in higher Rp and lower mu to use thoriated filaments will definitely make them sound different than other 300B variants!

 

[johnsonad]

I used a pair of the original run in the first BeePre for a while.  In the first BeePre design they were extremely microphonic.  They ended up in my 300B amps until one died.  They glow pretty and sounded nice.  Not nice enough for me to spend the money on them a second time though.

With the new BeePre circuit, you shouldn't experience the microphonics like the first circuit if you do end up buying a pair.

 

[ArtnShit]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts! I think I will go ahead and buy a pair and try them in the BeePre, if I don’t like them there, they go to my Kaiju. I’ll get a second pair eventually for both amps if I enjoy the sound. Is having two different types of 300b’s in both amps going to cause any issue?

PB - I was asking about circuit changes because I saw a brief mention in an older forum post about that. Is that no longer the case?

Thanks!

 

[Paul Joppa]

I did a search, remembering I had posted something. See post #6 in

https://forum.bottlehead.com/index.php?topic=8631.msg82243#msg82243

Bottom line - no adjustment is needed, but it only makes about 5 watts per channel in Kaiju.

 

[ArtnShit]

Hi Paul! Thanks for you answer. Do you think 5W would be enough to drive Cornwall V1’s too. A reasonably loud listening level?

Additionally if I were to place the Elrogs in my fully upgraded BeePre2, would the circuit be fine for them?

Thank you in advance

 

[Paul Joppa]

I assume you meant the Cornwall IV? When I searched for the Cornwall VI, I found this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264956386197

Anyhow, ever since our first DHT amp (Afterglow, 1997) customers have had a particular affinity for the various Cornwalls. They are very efficient, and can even perform well with a S.E.X. amp at 2 watts per channel. So yes, I think 5 watts is quite adequate.

I haven't looked at the BeePre application of the Elrog yet, so it will take me a while to answer with confidence. But see johnsonad's experience below - he has a good ear!

 

[johnsonad]

I totally miss read your first post.

My 300B amps are modified Paramounts using a different operating point. Max output is around 5.1 watts in current form.  I’ve rolled a few 300Bs through them including the original Elrog. I’m currently using EML mesh plates. I loved the Elrogs in those amps, until one died. I’m happy with the mesh and prefer them over the EH. Just my two cents but I wouldn’t buy Elrog again, I don’t trust their quality control especially at their price point.

The EH tubes are my favorite in the BeePre. They are detailed in the right way and work well with my power amps running different tubes. Again, just my two cents but it may be too much of a good thing running Elrogs in both. They definitely color the sound. I brought them by BH and Doc and I rolled them in his big system. We both felt their were nice but colored. That may be what you’re looking for though.

 

[Paul Joppa]

I looked at the data sheets, and the Elrog in the original BeePre needs a big change - reducing the plate current from 60mA to 35mA. This is a preliminary estimate; I'll do a more thorough study eventually ...  :^)

It probably works in the stock BeePre II, but the upgrade likely needs some revision too.

 

[Gerry E.]

Just my two cents but I wouldn’t buy Elrog again, I don’t trust their quality control especially at their price point.

I wouldn't either!  Even with the new owner (Thomas Mayer) and presumably production and QC changes.  Once bitten, twice shy?  It's too bad because I really liked the sound.  They added a certain "richness" to the sound while still being transparent.  They were right up there with the 1996 - 2008 Western Electric and Takatsuki as the best I tried.

With their 5 year warranty, the current production Western Electric 300B with graphene coated plates were/are a no-brainer for me.  They sound terrific and you don't have to worry about them for at least 5 years.

Gerry             

 

[Paul Birkeland]

The BeePre 2 with upgrades will end up with a plate voltage down around 105V or so, which doesn't seem all that bad.  The heatsinks  on the high current C4S board will run a bit warmer than the stock circuit, but not disastrously so.

Changing the 330 ohm cathode bias resistor for something more like 450 ohms 3W would nudge the plate voltage up a little bit.

 

[2wo]

Slightly off topic I am glad to hear positive things about the new WE 300B. I've been following the saga for years.
My Grandfather worked for Western back in the day...John

 

[kgoss]

I have new production WE 300B tubes in a Dennis Had Inspire 300B-V.  I have been using it as my desktop amp driving a pair of Blumenstein Minis..  It gets 9+ hours a day M-F and it's been going almost a year and a half.  The tubes came with the amp and I have not tried any others.  But they sound great and I have had no issues.  If I ever wear these out I won't hesitate to buy more WE300Bs.

 

[Larpy]

I've been using new-production WE 300Bs in my Kaiju for about a year and a half.  I think they sound great, but the only other 300Bs I've tried are the stock EH and Gold Lion Genalex.  The Genalexes sounded a bit better than the EHs but it wasn't a dramatic upgrade.  The WEs, on the other hand, were clearly an upgrade, noticeable from the first seconds of firing them up and listening to them:  clearer, smoother, and more vivid-sounding (something like the sonic equivalent of color saturation in photography/cinematography).

Is the improvement commensurate with the price difference?  The WEs cost roughly 5 times more than the Genalexes.  Honestly, they don't sound 5 times better, but what with "diminishing returns" and all that, I'm not sorry I spent the money.

Were I wealthy, I'd try Elrog, EML, and Takatsuki 300Bs as well.  Maybe some day.

 

[johnsonad]

I hope the originator doesn’t mind taking this thread on a detour.

Gerry is the only guy i know who has had all of the top end tubes and he has a nice audio set up.

Sound quality, build quality, warranty and ultimately cost performance is how I buy fancy tubes now. But when a pair of tubes costs as much as a new amp, I find a compromise that my wallet and listening enjoyment can both be happy with.

300Bs, even the affordable Russian made EH last a long time when used with a conservative operating point. My EML’s are eight years old and test nearly new. Hell, they may outlast me.

 

[Paul Birkeland]

Hell, they may outlast me.

You aren't that old though...