Tube Rolling w/Crack

[JamieMcC]

Jamie, your observations on the Bendix 6080WB are similar to mine.  I'm constantly torn between the 6080WB and the 5998... for certain music such as rock and electronic music, the 6080WB is clearly superior with its more dynamic sound and punchy bass.  With Jazz and vocals, the 5998 trumps it convincingly.

My favourite 2 combinations (using a Beyer T90):
1. TS 5998 + CBS Hytron 5814A for jazz, vocals, acoustic music
2. Bendix 6080WB + Philips E80CC for rock, electronic music.

I am curious to try the Genalex 6AS7G, but the price is prohibitive.  How would you describe the Genalex relative to the TS5998 and the Bendix 6080WB?

The Glenalex I had to look it up and found its another name for the CEC/OSRAM/MOV tube A1834 CV2523.

If I could keep only one tube it would be Genalex/GEC

Nick Tam did a ranking of the 6as7g's the full piece from the old site is linked below

This is what he has to say on the GEC

"The "Super Tube", the "Holy Grail" of all 6AS7Gs. The GEC 6AS7G is very balanced in each aspect, good micro detailing and extremely analytical. The soundstage is very spacious, and has lots of air. Layering is very good and is probably the best of all British tubes. The differences between the curved and straight base are near indiscernible, so there’s no need to extra big bucks for the curved brown base in particular."

----------------------------------------

The micro detailing is the thing I find most appealing the layering and clarity or the resolution reveals subtle nuances in tone and texture that I find beguiling. The cravat is you need to be in the zone free from distractions and singly focus on the music. With that in mind it only gets plugged in for such occasions rather than general listening. Such occasions often also include a large scotch.

If I am working on the pc then really any of the 6080's I find enjoyable for background listening. The 5998 is close but just not quiet in the same league and I prefer it for general leisure listening. I would say if your using HD650's then stick with the 5998 as the GEC''s finer qualities are rather lost on my HD650's they are just are not resolving enough. Plug in the T1's and its different story.

link

http://the-key.enix.org/~krystal/review-tube-bottlehead.html

 

[serpent68]

Jamie, your observations on the Bendix 6080WB are similar to mine.  I'm constantly torn between the 6080WB and the 5998... for certain music such as rock and electronic music, the 6080WB is clearly superior with its more dynamic sound and punchy bass.  With Jazz and vocals, the 5998 trumps it convincingly.

My favourite 2 combinations (using a Beyer T90):
1. TS 5998 + CBS Hytron 5814A for jazz, vocals, acoustic music
2. Bendix 6080WB + Philips E80CC for rock, electronic music.

I am curious to try the Genalex 6AS7G, but the price is prohibitive.  How would you describe the Genalex relative to the TS5998 and the Bendix 6080WB?

The Glenalex I had to look it up and found its another name for the CEC/OSRAM/MOV tube A1834 CV2523.

If I could keep only one tube it would be Genalex/GEC

Nick Tam did a ranking of the 6as7g's the full piece from the old site is linked below

This is what he has to say on the GEC

"The "Super Tube", the "Holy Grail" of all 6AS7Gs. The GEC 6AS7G is very balanced in each aspect, good micro detailing and extremely analytical. The soundstage is very spacious, and has lots of air. Layering is very good and is probably the best of all British tubes. The differences between the curved and straight base are near indiscernible, so there’s no need to extra big bucks for the curved brown base in particular."

----------------------------------------

The micro detailing is the thing I find most appealing the layering and clarity or the resolution reveals subtle nuances in tone and texture that I find beguiling. The cravat is you need to be in the zone free from distractions and singly focus on the music. With that in mind it only gets plugged in for such occasions rather than general listening. Such occasions often also include a large scotch.

If I am working on the pc then really any of the 6080's I find enjoyable for background listening. The 5998 is close but just not quiet in the same league and I prefer it for general leisure listening. I would say if your using HD650's then stick with the 5998 as the GEC''s finer qualities are rather lost on my HD650's they are just are not resolving enough. Plug in the T1's and its different story.

link

http://the-key.enix.org/~krystal/review-tube-bottlehead.html

Thanks for your impression, Jamie.  I meant to say GEC 6AS7G in my previous post, but somehow mixed it up by saying Genalex.

What do you pair the GEC with?  I'm very tempted now after hearing your good impressions, and even more so when you are using a Beyer like me (though your T1 is clearly better than the T90 I have).

Btw, a nice dose of the old single malt scotch never fails to increase the enjoyment factor for me

 

[xcoolhandx]

The differences between the curved and straight base are near indiscernible

..this could be true if you comparing same brand,year ,etc  ,I have both and I would say that the Haltron GEC/MOV/Hammersmith/ A1834/6AS7G which is the real "..grail"sounds better  that the tube you referring to,just my 2C

 

[serpent68]

^^^ try to pair it with 6SN7 guys
EDIT ;some power tubes prefer larger driver tubes ;
GEC A1834-6AS7G+ 6SN7=win
GEC A1834-6AS7G+12AU7=not that great
5998+6SN7 =not that great
Bendix red bank +6SN7 =win
Bendix+12AU7/E80CC=suck
TS 7236+12AU7=win

Which 6SN7 tube did you pair with the Bendix?  I've tried a Sylvania VT231 with the TS 5998 and was underwhelmed by it.

 

[JamieMcC]

I have narrowed my input tubes down to only four now

Siemens/Tungsram  E80cc
Mullard cv4003 (box plate)
Tung Sol 12au7 Black Glass 
Tung Sol 12au7 JTL

I find they work well so have just stuck with them.

 

[xcoolhandx]

^^^ try to pair it with 6SN7 guys
EDIT ;some power tubes prefer larger driver tubes ;
GEC A1834-6AS7G+ 6SN7=win
GEC A1834-6AS7G+12AU7=not that great
5998+6SN7 =not that great
Bendix red bank +6SN7 =win
Bendix+12AU7/E80CC=suck
TS 7236+12AU7=win

Which 6SN7 tube did you pair with the Bendix?  I've tried a Sylvania VT231 with the TS 5998 and was underwhelmed by it.

best two -which will bring out the sparkle ,detail ,voice and make it very balanced are
RCA JAN 6SN7-GT/VT-231 U.S. NAVY
smoke glass 1940s
TS CTL 6SN7GT Black glass U.S. NAVY 1942

P.S. here is a wealth of information ,characteristics and great read on tubes in general

http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/search/label/6SN7

EDIT; here is a cheapo that also works well

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321355025737?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

 

[ashneel]

What are your favourite 6sn7 tubes?? Anyone has used some Kenrad (vt231) black glass tubes?

 

[Kris]

Try Raytheon VT-231, it's my favorite 6SN7 tube...just my 2 cents

 

[Joshewah]

Well, I admit I was wrong about tube rolling.

Up until yesterday I've only had 4 tubes for my Crack; Ratheon 6080, Sino 6AS7G, Electro Harmonix 12AU7, and JJ 12AU7.

I had tried the 4 combinations I could do with these tubes, all of which sounded relatively similar, so I kind of ruled tube rolling as being audiophile BS and wishful thinking.

On a whim I looked into RCA clear top 12AU7s and found a good deal for a strong tube for only $10. I figured why not try it? This is the tube that always seems to be described as an affordable jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none.

I have to say this tube fixed some issues that I had noticed that I didn't realize were being caused by (or at least emphasized by) the new production 12AU7s I had. The RCA tube smoothed out this weird distortion I was hearing in the upper mids or lower treble that sounded like static or a glassy grating sound. The RCA also sort of bumped and rounded the bass a bit. Enjoying my Beyer DT880s even more now.

I wouldn't say the sound has drastically changed like you read on other forums where people go on a long tangent peppered with pretty words about how the sound could save the lives of starving children in Africa, it's not that drastic of a change, but its enough be noticeable and improve the listening experience and I'm all about that.

Pretty cool! 

Just thought I'd share the moment I had my tube epiphany.

 

[ashneel]

Well, I admit I was wrong about tube rolling.

Up until yesterday I've only had 4 tubes for my Crack; Ratheon 6080, Sino 6AS7G, Electro Harmonix 12AU7, and JJ 12AU7.

I had tried the 4 combinations I could do with these tubes, all of which sounded relatively similar, so I kind of ruled tube rolling as being audiophile BS and wishful thinking.

On a whim I looked into RCA clear top 12AU7s and found a good deal for a strong tube for only $10. I figured why not try it? This is the tube that always seems to be described as an affordable jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none.

I have to say this tube fixed some issues that I had noticed that I didn't realize were being caused by (or at least emphasized by) the new production 12AU7s I had. The RCA tube smoothed out this weird distortion I was hearing in the upper mids or lower treble that sounded like static or a glassy grating sound. The RCA also sort of bumped and rounded the bass a bit. Enjoying my Beyer DT880s even more now.

I wouldn't say the sound has drastically changed like you read on other forums where people go on a long tangent peppered with pretty words about how the sound could save the lives of starving children in Africa, it's not drastic of a change, but its enough be noticeable and improve the listening experience and I'm all about that.

Pretty cool! 

Just thought I'd share the moment I had my tube epiphany.

Why not try the RCA 6AS7G too? It can be bought for around $20, and to me its darn good. Apparetly combined with the clear tops, its a great sounding combination..

 

[Doc B]

I wouldn't say the sound has drastically changed like you read on other forums where people go on a long tangent peppered with pretty words about how the sound could save the lives of starving children in Africa, it's not that drastic of a change, but its enough be noticeable and improve the listening experience and I'm all about that.

Post of the week!

 

[Joshewah]

Why not try the RCA 6AS7G too? It can be bought for around $20, and to me its darn good. Apparetly combined with the clear tops, its a great sounding combination..

Oh, believe me, I've unleashed a monster with this epiphany and have like 8 tubes headed my way in the mail. RCA 6AS7G is on my short list.

Any input on grey plate vs black plate regarding the RCA 6AS7G?

 

[JamieMcC]

I will admit to wrongly righting of the RCA 6as7g early on in with my experiments with rolling. In retrospect I don't think I could have paired it very well at the time. When I tried it the other day I was presently surprise my memory was of a rather flat and recessed sound and that was not what I was hearing this time round.

 

[Joshewah]

Just had a Svetlana "flying C" arrive in the mail today. Can't say I notice too much difference between any of my 3 power tubes. Seems the gain/driver tube is the one responsible for most of the flavor between tubes, yes?

 

[serpent68]

Just had a Svetlana "flying C" arrive in the mail today. Can't say I notice too much difference between any of my 3 power tubes. Seems the gain/driver tube is the one responsible for most of the flavor between tubes, yes?

I've tried the Svetlana winged-C, and I was not too impressed by it.  Sounds average, and a bit flat and un-involving... but that's comparing it to the Tungsol 5998.  The 5998 does bring a big step up in performance, more so than the various input tubes I've tried.  Unfortunately the cost has gone insane recently.

My favorite input tube now is the CBS Hytron 5814A.

 

[krystalnx]

For all (newb, like me) reader, something have to be said ; the stock choice I've got on my crack were *very* good.

I've tryed to roll both input and output tube, with popular (in forum) but reasonnably priced alternative (10-40$ each, ~200$ total), and right now my preferred setup is still what got shipped with my crack (especially for the input tube, which I'm not sure be seems to be a RCA 12AU7 blackplate).

I'm not saying the listening can't be improved, but I think you should see that as a way to tune your crack to the sound you prefer, not as an absolute upgrade, as you *may* prefer the "stock" sound after spending money

 

[Joshewah]

I'm not saying the listening can't be improved, but I think you should see that as a way to tune your crack to the sound you prefer, not as an absolute upgrade, as you *may* prefer the "stock" sound after spending money

Also as a newbie, I agree. It's very easy to get carried away tube rolling.

I have to say though, the RCA I replaced my new production tubes with really smoothed out the rough edges I was hearing. I hate describing sound with text but that the best way I can describe it

Sounds like you started out stock with a strong tube!

 

[Guy 13]

Hi all.
I've tried with my Crack the Raytheon 6080, the RCA 6080 and the RCA 6AS7G and if there is a difference between those three, I am not sure I have heard a difference. I'm not saying that there is not difference, but to my ears if there is one , in minimal.
Same thing goes for the 12AU7 (NOS) of different manufacturers
(RCA. Sylvania....)
With the stock tubes, the Crack sounds pretty good
and I will stop spending my hard earned money on tubes that makes
very little difference, to my ears anyway.
If there a tube that is a lot better sounding
and I mean a lot better for less than 50 USD,
then share you finding with us
and I might buy it.

Guy 13

By the way,
is the Chatham 5998 really better sounding than the rest of the crowd ?

 

[JamieMcC]

Hi all.
I've tried with my Crack the Raytheon 6080, the RCA 6080 and the RCA 6AS7G and if there is a difference between those three, I am not sure I have heard a difference. I'm not saying that there is not difference, but to my ears if there is one , in minimal.
Same thing goes for the 12AU7 (NOS) of different manufacturers
(RCA. Sylvania....)
With the stock tubes, the Crack sounds pretty good
and I will stop spending my hard earned money on tubes that makes
very little difference, to my ears anyway.
If there a tube that is a lot better sounding
and I mean a lot better for less than 50 USD,
then share you finding with us
and I might buy it.

Guy 13

By the way,
is the Chatham 5998 really better sounding than the rest of the crowd ?

Guy re the 5998 short answer yes its a very good tube, if your patient they can be found $75-$85 nos from dealers or less for used off of classifieds.

The Mullard 6080 is one of my favourite tubes $25-$35 I use it more than my 5998.
Also the Chatham 6as7g is worth a try if you like female vocals around $15





Mullard 6080 is one of my favourites 

 

[ashneel]

Why not try the RCA 6AS7G too? It can be bought for around $20, and to me its darn good. Apparetly combined with the clear tops, its a great sounding combination..

Oh, believe me, I've unleashed a monster with this epiphany and have like 8 tubes headed my way in the mail. RCA 6AS7G is on my short list.

Any input on grey plate vs black plate regarding the RCA 6AS7G?

I have both the black and grey plates. People say the black ones sound better, but to me they sounded the same..and they cost pretty much the same too