Tube Rolling w/Crack

[Colonl_Charisma]

For my input tube, I have enjoyed the Mullard CV4003 (~$50 on eBay). For my power tube, I've been really loving the Thomson 6080WA (I bought a matched NOS pair for ~$50 on eBay).

That combo sounds amazing on my Crack (no Speedball upgrade yet).

 

[Markkr]

For my input tube, I have enjoyed the Mullard CV4003 (~$50 on eBay). For my power tube, I've been really loving the Thomson 6080WA (I bought a matched NOS pair for ~$50 on eBay).

That combo sounds amazing on my Crack (no Speedball upgrade yet).

Thank you. If I understand correctly, the power tube does not make much sonic improvement?

 

[Colonl_Charisma]

You’re welcome. I’m not 100% sure about sonic improvement. I’ll let someone else answer that haha. The other power tubes I have tried are a Russian 6as7g and a GE 6080. I found the Russian tube to have a flat sound, lacking in the low end, and lacking depth. That’s the best way I can describe how it sounded to me. I also didn’t care for the sound of the GE 6080. Both were rolled with the Mullard CV4003.

 

[cddc]

I’m absolutely loving this amp.... lets just say I was interested in picking up a couple tubes for them.... Can anyone recommend what to start with? Is there a tube upgrade that is guaranteed to please? (Budget would be less than $200 per amp)

If you have a budget of $200, I would recommend you to get a Tung Sol 5998 and a Telefunken/Mullard/Amperex/Mazda 12AU7.

If you are willing to try 6SN7 tubes with adapter, there will be much more choices, it's a deep rabbit hole.

 

[cddc]

Thank you. If I understand correctly, the power tube does not make much sonic improvement?

I don't think so.

My experience is that in Crack the driver tube accounts for 40% and the power tube accounts for 60%.

You need a good power tube to get the most out of Crack. A sucker power tube (like RCA 6AS7G) will doom whatever driver tubes you throw in.

Once you get a good power tube, you can switch different driver tubes for different flavors.

 

[cddc]

Forgot to mention a good starter tube would be the Russian 6H13C (i.e. 6N13S) tube. You can get them around $10 apiece + shipping from Ukraine or Russia.

 

[barbz]

A sucker power tube (like RCA 6AS7G) will doom whatever driver tubes you throw in.

I'm curious to know thoughts on the rca 6as7g and why it's a sucker power tube

Thank you

 

[cddc]

I'm curious to know thoughts on the rca 6as7g and why it's a sucker power tube

Thank you

It has rolled off highs and lows, kinda mid-centric, which is quite typical of the RCA "house-sound". RCA 6SN7 is no different.

When you add RCA 6AS7G or 6SN7 to your Crack, you'll find the overall presentation is veiled, kinda muddy sound that I really dislike.

 

[Doc B]

sound that I really dislike

That's the most important part of your post. It's a sound that you dislike. But will someone else dislike it? I will suggest that we all temper our descriptions to include what our own taste might be, as you have done in describing what you are hearing from RCA 6080s or 6SN7s. I don't necessarily disagree with you, particularly about a 6SN7 sounding a little lacking on top. But it's a very linear tube, and it has a great midrange. Some folks absolutely love the sound. After 25 years at this I know for sure that my Crack amp might sound like crap to one person, but not to someone else.

The original idea behind this kit was to offer a cheap way for all of us to roll tubes and form our own opinions. I still think that is the best approach. I'll also suggest that people stop paying stupid money for tubes. I buy tubes on ebay all the time. Not the overpriced ones. IME about half the sellers know jack shit about what they are selling. Caveat emptor. The law of diminishing returns applies heavily. If you see some 6080/6AS7 variant for $400 on ebay, run the other way. It might sound better to you, but it won't sound 26.66 times better than a $15 one. If we all start paying $400 for a 6080 tube pretty soon a Crack kit will be a grand.

Oh yeah, and all of this opinion is useless if you don't say what headphones you are using to form these opinions. Let's be logical here.

 

[cddc]

Hi Doc. B, glad to hear from you.

I agree with you on many levels. While I do hate the sound of RCA 6AS7G and RCA 6SN7, I do find some folks like them, especially those mainly on vocal albums, sometimes Jazz albums. So I stated the reason why I dislike them. I also agree with you on the tube prices. The NOS tube prices were kind of going wild recently. A pair of Tung Sol 6AS7G's were selling for $300+ weeks ago, I was just stunned when seeing the winning bid. People were going crazy, out of rationale, propelled by the tube-mania from head-fi. I got my TS 6AS7G's for $20 a pop just couple of years ago.

BTW, I am using Senn HD800 headphones with my Crack w/ Speedball.

 

[Bubbatwoa]

I'll also suggest that people stop paying stupid money for tubes. I buy tubes on ebay all the time. Not the overpriced ones. IME about half the sellers know jack shit about what they are selling. Caveat emptor. The law of diminishing returns applies heavily. If you see some 6080/6AS7 variant for $400 on ebay, run the other way. It might sound better to you, but it won't sound 26.66 times better than a $15 one. If we all start paying $400 for a 6080 tube pretty soon a Crack kit will be a grand.

I've been wondering for a long time whether NOS tubes really sound better than new production tubes of the same type and specifications, or if the popularity of NOS tubes is more about the fun and pride of owning antique tubes, similar to how people enjoy owning antique furniture.  It seems just about everybody wants NOS tubes but I have my doubts as to whether the hysteria is really justified with respect to sound quality.

 

[monsterdonkey]

Yes, it’s a funny thing NOS vs New. A couple decades ago I bought a used Fender Deluxe Reverb II and when I looked in the back I found a bunch of old tubes. Imagine! So I ordered a complete set of new JJs and popped them in. I still have those old tubes and now that I’m reading all of these tube rolling forums I wonder if I made a horrible mistake all those years ago, and I consider rolling them back in to see.

One thing I like about tubes is that they are shiny.

 

[Wplchou]

Hi Doc. B, glad to hear from you.

I agree with you on many levels. While I do hate the sound of RCA 6AS7G and RCA 6SN7, I do find some folks like them, especially those mainly on vocal albums, sometimes Jazz albums. So I stated the reason why I dislike them. I also agree with you on the tube prices. The NOS tube prices were kind of going wild recently. A pair of Tung Sol 6AS7G's were selling for $300+ weeks ago, I was just stunned when seeing the winning bid. People were going crazy, out of rationale, propelled by the tube-mania from head-fi. I got my TS 6AS7G's for $20 a pop just couple of years ago.

BTW, I am using Senn HD800 headphones with my Crack w/ Speedball.

I just finished up my Crack w/Speedball and running them on a pair of 6XX and ZMF Verite C , sounds great on the stock tubes, its my first tube amp, so I went out and got a pair of RCA 6AS7G which was on sale. I didnt change the stock 12AU7 just the stock 6080, and Im not sure if I know how to describe the difference, but for me the stock tube sounds a lot better, clearly wider stage and more "exciting", and on a side note I feel like I had to turn the volume knob more to get more volume from the 6as7g which im not sure why.

Aside from the Tungsol 5998 and mullard , any other tubes would anyone here kindly recommend me both pwer and input. I have scrolled thru lots and lots of threads and fail to find some consolidated post on this matter.

Thanks a lot

 

[Doc B]

I have scrolled thru lots and lots of threads and fail to find some consolidated post on this matter.

Thanks a lot

That's a good thing. It tells you that there is no consensus. We all get to choose a tube that suits our own unique taste.

 

[attmci]

I just finished up my Crack w/Speedball and running them on a pair of 6XX and ZMF Verite C , sounds great on the stock tubes, its my first tube amp, so I went out and got a pair of RCA 6AS7G which was on sale. I didnt change the stock 12AU7 just the stock 6080, and Im not sure if I know how to describe the difference, but for me the stock tube sounds a lot better, clearly wider stage and more "exciting", and on a side note I feel like I had to turn the volume knob more to get more volume from the 6as7g which im not sure why.

Aside from the Tungsol 5998 and mullard , any other tubes would anyone here kindly recommend me both pwer and input. I have scrolled thru lots and lots of threads and fail to find some consolidated post on this matter.

Thanks a lot

Here you go: https://forum.bottlehead.com/index.php?topic=663.465

 

[Welderboy]

Got a Thomson 6080WA - worked for a day and now I can only hear a very faint sound if I crank the amp up quite a bit. If I put the original tube in that came with the kit everything works just fine again.

Did I get a dud or is there anything I should try to diagnose?

 

[Paul Birkeland]

Did I get a dud or is there anything I should try to diagnose?

I would send it back. 

 

[Welderboy]

I would send it back.

Seller is in the UK and I'm in the US, so hopefully I won't end up paying $20 for the privilege of using it once.

Luckily these aren't super rare, definitely improved the sound a bit so I'll see if they send a replacement or if I find another vendor.

Thanks!

edit: seller already replied (less than 20 minutes) and will send a replacement.

 

[David Joiner]

Hey All,

Finished my BH Crack months ago, May 2020, and purchased some tubes to roll in (RU 6H13C and a Philips 5914A) and I'm enjoying it immensely. Listened without the SB upgrade for sometime then installed it a couple months back, as well as some Audyne caps (man those suckers are big, 400V? Kinda overkill; barely squeezed them in along with the SB upgrade).

Came back to this topic for ideas on more tube rolling a few days ago, and came across the post with info on a Taiwanese site with lots of tubes. The poster had mentioned that they carried some Thomson 6080WA, lots of them, (and I also read many posters like their sound), and, too, right now they are at a reduced price of ~$US15, so I was thinking of making a purchase, but, there is a "PS" with the tube description that says,

"This tube need soft start of high voltage. if your amplifier does not have a rectifier tube for soft start, do not buy this tube. NO RETURN of this item if your amplifier do not have a rectifier tube . Please pay ONLY IF you agree ."

What does that mean? And, does that mean it won't work in my Crack? If not, why are Thomson 6080WA tubes recommended by other BH Crack posters? The description also mentions to not use them in "Chinese" made headphone amplifiers; what's with Chinese headphone amps, or is the site making a "political" statement?!

Here's the link: http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1279

Also, PB in a post sometime in the past mentioned new input tubes are a waste of time (paraphrasing) over NOS or used even? Why? Is it price to value ratio? Or other reasons?


Thanks for any insight!

Happy Rolling!

 

[Paul Birkeland]

There have definitely been a lot of posts about people having problems with that particular seller, so take that for what it's worth.  That seller also doesn't understand that a directly heated rectifier will put out full voltage within a couple of seconds after being powered on, so even that statement is a little peculiar.