G
groomster
Guest
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I'm not really a fully vested member here yet but welcome aboard (sorry, couldn't resist) anyway. I haven't heard the CMOY but from what I've read it is considered a very entry level amp. I would guess the Crack would sound much, much better if for no other reason than it has tubes. I just finished my Crack a week or so ago and am really enjoying it. I don't see myself getting or building anything else for a long time unless I manage to come into a lot of money.
I spent about 24 years in the Air Force so it's nice to see a fellow military person around these parts.
I spent about 24 years in the Air Force so it's nice to see a fellow military person around these parts.
Grainger49
New member
Groomster,
Welcome! Your excitement will be well founded. Bottlehead gives a great bang-for-the-buck. Your headphone impedance will interact with the coupling cap so we will assume that you checked the specs and bought the proper amp for your headphones.
Just a couple of suggestions for assembly. Check for any manual corrections before you start in the Crack Folder. Make a good crimped mechanical connection before soldering. Solder doesn't make the joint it just makes it permanent. After you see the solder flow wait a couple of seconds before removing the iron so everything is properly heated. And finally, be kind to the power switch. I would suggest drilling a small hole through the lugs on the switch to make a crimped joint before soldering. The power switch can melt if you put a lot of heat into it. It happens regularly. It is a good switch but I think it is intended for use with a slip on lug rather than soldering.
Good luck and keep us posted!
Welcome! Your excitement will be well founded. Bottlehead gives a great bang-for-the-buck. Your headphone impedance will interact with the coupling cap so we will assume that you checked the specs and bought the proper amp for your headphones.
Just a couple of suggestions for assembly. Check for any manual corrections before you start in the Crack Folder. Make a good crimped mechanical connection before soldering. Solder doesn't make the joint it just makes it permanent. After you see the solder flow wait a couple of seconds before removing the iron so everything is properly heated. And finally, be kind to the power switch. I would suggest drilling a small hole through the lugs on the switch to make a crimped joint before soldering. The power switch can melt if you put a lot of heat into it. It happens regularly. It is a good switch but I think it is intended for use with a slip on lug rather than soldering.
Good luck and keep us posted!
The very first project I built was a cmoy, it sounded good the and still does! Been through many others, still have and use AMB's wonderful Mini^3 portable. The crack is in a whole 'nother league no question. You're gonna love it. I build a lot of solid state, a lot with SMD parts so working on the crack was a very different and wonderful experience.The instruction have to be the best on the market, bar none. I want to leave you with a thought made popular on Head-Fi "Sorry about your wallet"!!
Grainger49
New member
Billyk said:
Bwa Ha, Ha, Ha! Crack and Bottlehead in general are addictive!
InfernoSTi
New member
Congratulations! Great feeling...been there, love it!!! Enjoy the music for a month or more THEN build the speedball. You will want to listen long enough to get 200 hours on the Crack to fully burn in and get 100% accustomed to the sound quality. When you add the speedball, you can make note of the improvements that you might not notice in the newness and burn in changes currently. Just an idea, of course....
John
John
groomster, first off, congratulations!
Second, when you say a tube is getting excessively warm, can we assume you mean the larger one? And, by excessively warm, do you mean that touching it will instantly raise a blister, or merely that leaving your finger on it is uncomfortable?
BTW, don't worry overly much about touching the tubes; the envelope is simply glass, it's not like a halogen capsule or a 1k tungsten lamp, a little oil won't harm it. Just wipe it off with a soft cloth once in a while. Note: if the markings on the tube are important to you, go easy; some of those will wipe right off!
Finally, it sounds to me as if you are listening to the amp while it is breaking in, something I usually do with a new amp. As a very general rule, after about 50 operating hours, the components get pretty well settled in, and you won't hear much more change until you swap in different tubes. There are certain exceptions that take much longer, but you get the idea.
If it were me, I would live with it for some time before the upgrade. Play a lot of music you are very familiar with. For sure, get it past the 50 hours mentioned above.
Since you have the upgrade in hand, I would certainly recommend that you give it a try, though! And, give it the same break-in period before listening critically. Just keep your options open as you go along, in case you want to change it back.
Second, when you say a tube is getting excessively warm, can we assume you mean the larger one? And, by excessively warm, do you mean that touching it will instantly raise a blister, or merely that leaving your finger on it is uncomfortable?
BTW, don't worry overly much about touching the tubes; the envelope is simply glass, it's not like a halogen capsule or a 1k tungsten lamp, a little oil won't harm it. Just wipe it off with a soft cloth once in a while. Note: if the markings on the tube are important to you, go easy; some of those will wipe right off!
Finally, it sounds to me as if you are listening to the amp while it is breaking in, something I usually do with a new amp. As a very general rule, after about 50 operating hours, the components get pretty well settled in, and you won't hear much more change until you swap in different tubes. There are certain exceptions that take much longer, but you get the idea.
If it were me, I would live with it for some time before the upgrade. Play a lot of music you are very familiar with. For sure, get it past the 50 hours mentioned above.
Since you have the upgrade in hand, I would certainly recommend that you give it a try, though! And, give it the same break-in period before listening critically. Just keep your options open as you go along, in case you want to change it back.
To be perfectly honest, I don't own a Crack, so I can't say anything definitive. Hopefully, others will comment from direct knowledge.
I can say, though, that if your resistance and Voltage checks were all within tolerance, I would be very much surprised if you have a problem. Tubes can get pretty warm when they are in use.
It may be of some interest to note how they feel to you after the unit has just been turned on for about ten minutes, but with no music playing through it. Just "idling" after a cold start.
I can say, though, that if your resistance and Voltage checks were all within tolerance, I would be very much surprised if you have a problem. Tubes can get pretty warm when they are in use.
It may be of some interest to note how they feel to you after the unit has just been turned on for about ten minutes, but with no music playing through it. Just "idling" after a cold start.
Grainger49
New member
Mike,
To answer your question about heat, it is normal. The glass of the tubes, the transformer and the attached top plate will get hot.
To answer your question about heat, it is normal. The glass of the tubes, the transformer and the attached top plate will get hot.
Hi Groomster. I wanted to post a reply when you first started this thread but got side tracked for some reason and didnt remember it. I know exactly how you feel regarding your anticipation of waiting on the kit to arrive. Sounds like you are about as patient as I am 
A previous neck surgery forces me to leash myself and limit bench time to a couple hours or I end up "paying" for it. So I was forced to build Crack over the course of 4 or 5 days, including the base. Actually, I pushed the last session and paid for it anyway. The anticipation was worse for me once I got the kit than it was waiting for it to arrive :-D
I am a bit surprised to read that you didnt hear an immediate difference between Crack and your Cmoy with your Beyers. I built an AMB Mini 3 (based on Cmoy) and the difference between it and Crack was immediately noticeable and not at all what I would describe as subtle. My main cans are Beyer 990's (250 ohm). But the Mini 3 isnt exactly a Cmoy and there are a lot of different variables involved.
Anyway, congrats on the build, happy to read it went smoothly and that you are enjoying it. And thank you for your service!
A previous neck surgery forces me to leash myself and limit bench time to a couple hours or I end up "paying" for it. So I was forced to build Crack over the course of 4 or 5 days, including the base. Actually, I pushed the last session and paid for it anyway. The anticipation was worse for me once I got the kit than it was waiting for it to arrive :-D
I am a bit surprised to read that you didnt hear an immediate difference between Crack and your Cmoy with your Beyers. I built an AMB Mini 3 (based on Cmoy) and the difference between it and Crack was immediately noticeable and not at all what I would describe as subtle. My main cans are Beyer 990's (250 ohm). But the Mini 3 isnt exactly a Cmoy and there are a lot of different variables involved.
Anyway, congrats on the build, happy to read it went smoothly and that you are enjoying it. And thank you for your service!
I suspect your relatively low impedance, 80 ohm cans, are why you really aren't hearing everything the Crack has to offer Groomster. When properly paired with high impedance phones, the crack has a serious "wow factor" that does not require golden ears to appreciate. It is a night and day improvement over any portable amp I've ever heard and bests many/most well regarded commercial desktop options as well, irrespective of cost, per my experience at CanJam. My prior Woo 3, for example, even with pricey nos tubes, is thoroughly outclassed by the crack.
If you want to hear your new baby sing, keep an eye out for a deal on a pair of Sennheiser HD600/650's or, alternatively, 250 or 600 ohm Beyers. Audiogon and head-fi.org's for sale forum are worth a look if you're willing to buy used.
If you want to hear your new baby sing, keep an eye out for a deal on a pair of Sennheiser HD600/650's or, alternatively, 250 or 600 ohm Beyers. Audiogon and head-fi.org's for sale forum are worth a look if you're willing to buy used.
You ask a good question about the authenticity of Senn headphones on ebay, and the answer is, you generally can't tell. Much better to buy something from the classifieds on head-fi, though that also doesn't guarantee anything, but chances are that you'll be far more likely to get the real thing there. If the price looks ridiculously low, then that can be a clue -- figure somewhere in the $200 range for used HD-600s.
Another new option would be the AKG K601s which are also said to be very nice with the Crack, which is one amp these can's seem to like more than a lot of other amps.
-- Jim
Another new option would be the AKG K601s which are also said to be very nice with the Crack, which is one amp these can's seem to like more than a lot of other amps.
-- Jim
I bought my 650's on eBay, actually, for less than $350 (can't remember the exact figure at the moment). They looked like they had never been used and came in a Sennheiser box, so I'm confident they were legit. Even after using Beyer DT880's, they are the best thing I could have done to support my Crack habit! With the Speedball upgrade, a 5998 and clear-top 12AU7, they are the closest I've ever come to my "ideal" for playback of music.
castelletti
New member
I got mine from razordogdeals2008 on ebay, they are an authorized Senn dealer and completely legit.
InfernoSTi
New member
Amazon has used Sein 600 and 650 from $254 and $320 respectively. New are $330 and $440 respectively. This should be the most you would pay....
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_sc_3_10?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=sennheiser+650&x=0&y=0&sprefix=sennheiser#/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=sennheiser+600&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Asennheiser+600
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_sc_3_10?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=sennheiser+650&x=0&y=0&sprefix=sennheiser#/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=sennheiser+600&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Asennheiser+600
If I recall correctly Tyl Herstens of Headroom fame gave the Dr Dre's an unfavorable review, the bass curve was way off in a not so good way. He did not understand why given the cost and engineering. I am sure you can find the review.
I have used DakMart several times. They have HD-600 B stock for $208.00 http://www.dakmart.com/p4509/Sennheiser-HD600-HD-600-bstock-Hi-Fi-Professional-Headphones/product_info.html They are authorized, the one time I had an issue I RMA's right to Sennheiser for the replacement and it was quick and easy.
I have used DakMart several times. They have HD-600 B stock for $208.00 http://www.dakmart.com/p4509/Sennheiser-HD600-HD-600-bstock-Hi-Fi-Professional-Headphones/product_info.html They are authorized, the one time I had an issue I RMA's right to Sennheiser for the replacement and it was quick and easy.
groomster said:
I think it is safe to cross the beats off your list. They have a lower impedance than your current cans, and despite their relatively high price tag, are not really hifi headphones based on the brief song or two I've heard through them. I wouldn't quite call them a toy, but you're not really getting what you're paying for unless you have a particular fetish for shiny black plastic /grin. (This seems to be the general consensus over on head-fi as well.)
The HD600's and 650's are in a totally different league and are glorious when plugged into the crack. As castelletti mentioned, there are a number of authorized Sennheiser sellers on ebay, and razordogdeals2008 is the one I see mentioned most often. One thing to keep in mind though - there have been at least two versions of the HD650's, and the more recent one is generally considered to be better (more balanced sounding and less subdued in the trebles) than the original version. The original was often criticized as sounding too "dark" by those "upgrading" from the HD600's, so the hypothesis is that Sennheiser tried to strike a compromise in later production runs. However, to date, a substantial number of head-fi posters still contend that the HD600's are a better headphone than the HD650's (generally asserting that the 650's have too much mid-bass and too little treble in comparison). The 600's and 650's share many similar characteristics (often referred to as the Sennheiser "house sound"), but their differences are easy to hear. If you have a chance to attend a headphone meet or visit a hifi shop to try the two out before buying one, I'd recommend it.
J&R used to be the cheapest reputable internet retailer for new 650's. Their web price has since gone up, but if you prefer to avoid ebay, my understanding is that you can still bargain them down to $360-370, or thereabouts, if you place an order by phone.
Im still waiting on my old 600 ohm AKG K 141's from the 1980's to get back from AKG service. It's been almost a month. I cant even remember how they sound seeing how I havent had anything that could properly drive them since the late 90's. My main cans are Beyer 990's (250 ohm). I love those phones but they arent light in the bass so not for the audiophile crowd seeking "neutrality" or "accuracy" or whatever the correct description is. I wouldnt call the bass on par with the bass monster phones available but they portray ample bass when the music does so not a good choice for those who dont want any low end "lift" from their phones.
Jrebman mentioned the AKG K 601's. The only high impedance phone still made by AKG (well relatively high at 120 ohms). I bought a set, probably for sentimental reasons more than any other and knowing that I could return them. They arent my cup of tea for most listening (too bass light for my tastes) and no amount of burn-in will transform them that much. They are also quite a bit more power hungry than the Beyers. But they do some things really, really right, to my ears. Initially not thinking I wanted a pair of "situational cans" I actually did send them back but did a quick UPS intercept the next day. I just couldnt stop thinking how good Luther Allison's - Where Have You Been? (Live in Montreux) as well as BB King's Live at the Apollo sounded on the AKG's. I missed the bass on a lot of tracks with the 601's but I didnt on some others and where I didnt, they sounded great. I decided that I had to keep them just for certian tracks/albums like the two I mentioned. They seem like a good match with Crack eventhough, again, they wont be my main cans. Point is, they may be a good option if they suit your tastes. 200 bucks is pretty expensive for a change of pace and/or situational headphone (if my wife knew she'd strangle me) but not all that much if they will be your main phones.
Jrebman mentioned the AKG K 601's. The only high impedance phone still made by AKG (well relatively high at 120 ohms). I bought a set, probably for sentimental reasons more than any other and knowing that I could return them. They arent my cup of tea for most listening (too bass light for my tastes) and no amount of burn-in will transform them that much. They are also quite a bit more power hungry than the Beyers. But they do some things really, really right, to my ears. Initially not thinking I wanted a pair of "situational cans" I actually did send them back but did a quick UPS intercept the next day. I just couldnt stop thinking how good Luther Allison's - Where Have You Been? (Live in Montreux) as well as BB King's Live at the Apollo sounded on the AKG's. I missed the bass on a lot of tracks with the 601's but I didnt on some others and where I didnt, they sounded great. I decided that I had to keep them just for certian tracks/albums like the two I mentioned. They seem like a good match with Crack eventhough, again, they wont be my main cans. Point is, they may be a good option if they suit your tastes. 200 bucks is pretty expensive for a change of pace and/or situational headphone (if my wife knew she'd strangle me) but not all that much if they will be your main phones.
