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Output Capacitor Upgrading Questions
- Thread starter jrihs
- Start date
John,
Generally caps are chosen relatively close to their working voltage (safety margin added of course) as in the same circuit the higher voltage cap will generally have higher ESR and inductance. In this situation, how much that will effect the sound, I can't even begin to guess but I'd say it might be pretty minimal. Electrolytics are another story though...
HTH,
Jim
Generally caps are chosen relatively close to their working voltage (safety margin added of course) as in the same circuit the higher voltage cap will generally have higher ESR and inductance. In this situation, how much that will effect the sound, I can't even begin to guess but I'd say it might be pretty minimal. Electrolytics are another story though...
HTH,
Jim
Thanks! so to figure the working voltage in this case, I would pick the voltage based on the electrolytic I'm replacing? I think its around 600V if memory is right. Guess I,m wondering what the working V is? Thats what I measure on the upstream side of the electrolytic thats installed?
Grainger49
New member
The Crack power supply caps are rated at 250V. So you can be assured that includes the turn on surge and some safety margin. Anything downstream will see lower voltages.
I don't know if 200V is safe, maybe someone using 200V caps will chime in. A 250V rating has to be safe.
I don't know if 200V is safe, maybe someone using 200V caps will chime in. A 250V rating has to be safe.
Hey John - From what I have read about subjective cap reviews, it appears that the higher voltage versions tend to sound better. Not sure if there is any reason to believe that! If all else being equal and they didnt cost much more I would go with the higher voltage rating.
In the Crack, anything above about 160 v is fine for the coupling caps. Definitely no need for 600v caps in the Carack.
To test the sonic impact of various voltage caps, one would have to have a selection of the same brand and make cap at the same size and different ratings and then break them all in in and then go back and listen to them one at a time. Which is to say that I'm guessing the higher voltage caps sounding better is more an issue of the construction of those particular caps, and maybe, just maybe a bit better mechanical damping due to a thicker dielectric. Lots of possibilities to investigate if one is so motivated.
-- Jim
To test the sonic impact of various voltage caps, one would have to have a selection of the same brand and make cap at the same size and different ratings and then break them all in in and then go back and listen to them one at a time. Which is to say that I'm guessing the higher voltage caps sounding better is more an issue of the construction of those particular caps, and maybe, just maybe a bit better mechanical damping due to a thicker dielectric. Lots of possibilities to investigate if one is so motivated.
-- Jim
I went with the 250V versions of the Mundorf M-Caps. They are smaller and 5 or 6 bucks less a piece. I would bet my tin ears that I personally wouldnt be able to hear a difference between the 250 and 400V versions so saving 10 or 12 bucks and a little bit of space was fine with me. YMMV and all that stuff.
Anyone know if it would it be possible to implement output capacitor switching on the fly? I can't think of a better way to do A-B tests on caps. Would a switch cause problems for the headphones? Maybe both sets of caps would need to be charged while switching... Any ideas? I'm sure I'm not the first one considering this.
Sounds completely doable -- but using a shorting type switch. Tube cad journal (John Broskie) sells such a switch and small pcb for just this purpose -- go to tubecad.com and check out the glassware store hardware link. I haven't been there in a while, but I know he used to sell this switch in the past.
HTH,
Jim
HTH,
Jim
Grainger49
New member
Bolivar said:Anyone know if it would it be possible to implement output capacitor switching on the fly? I can't think of a better way to do A-B tests on caps. Would a switch cause problems for the headphones? Maybe both sets of caps would need to be charged while switching... Any ideas? I'm sure I'm not the first one considering this.
Switching on the output side would keep all the caps charged. tpatton did this with one of his Seductions. He had 6 or more capacitors to compare.
Paul Joppa
Moderator
Be sure each cap has its own resistor to ground, so they are all charged up and you don't get huge "pops".
Overall I'm with earwaxxer. You'll hear a difference almost immediately, but judging whether it's a good or bad difference often takes me a long time.
Overall I'm with earwaxxer. You'll hear a difference almost immediately, but judging whether it's a good or bad difference often takes me a long time.
Thanks for advice guys. For now I'll do a switch to enable/disable a bypass cap I've had installed for awhile, so all components have already had plenty of time to burn in. I really just want to take the guess work and psychological aspects out of the equation. I mean can anyone really say they can accurately remember what their previous setups sound like if newly installed components are first burned in for weeks or more? Especially if you want the upgrades to sound better, chances are to you they will.
Though the sound itself is not everything. With diy it's fun to tinker with stuff even if the improvement in sound quality is marginal. I suppose there is some prestige in having an amp which has silver wire and boutique caps etc... Some people will happily buy a watch for thousands of dollars when a ten dollar watch will tell the time just the same. And it's fine. I certainly don't intend to criticize what others do, there just seems to be quite a bit of snake oil being sold in the world of high end audio.
Sorry for going a bit offtopic : )
Though the sound itself is not everything. With diy it's fun to tinker with stuff even if the improvement in sound quality is marginal. I suppose there is some prestige in having an amp which has silver wire and boutique caps etc... Some people will happily buy a watch for thousands of dollars when a ten dollar watch will tell the time just the same. And it's fine. I certainly don't intend to criticize what others do, there just seems to be quite a bit of snake oil being sold in the world of high end audio.
Sorry for going a bit offtopic : )
earwaxxer said:Hey John - From what I have read about subjective cap reviews, it appears that the higher voltage versions tend to sound better. Not sure if there is any reason to believe that! If all else being equal and they didnt cost much more I would go with the higher voltage rating.
Thanks guys...if they are on sale its been extended till the end of April. Auri-caps are 40% off (partsconnextio) which for us is still 100 bucks each...
hey John - cool thing about the films is that they will outlive your equipment! I have moved my Mundorf silver/oils around for the past 10 yrs or so. No shortage of uses. If I were to buy new speakers today I'm sure I would hack out whatever was in there and stick my own stuff in there.
Yeah, thats why I'm thinking of upgrading(?) to the auricaps (100 uf / 200v), (2.52"D x 2.80"L).
But really I think I will probably get the Mundorfs (100 uf / 400v) while they are on sale (20% off till the end of the month, which may be enough to cover shipping from Canada. why is it cheaper to ship from everyplace else on the planet than Canada).
ADDED, I wonder what Duelunds would sound like if they were made in the needed values?
But really I think I will probably get the Mundorfs (100 uf / 400v) while they are on sale (20% off till the end of the month, which may be enough to cover shipping from Canada. why is it cheaper to ship from everyplace else on the planet than Canada).
ADDED, I wonder what Duelunds would sound like if they were made in the needed values?
jrihs said:Yeah, thats why I'm thinking of upgrading(?) to the auricaps (100 uf / 200v), (2.52"D x 2.80"L).
But really I think I will probably get the Mundorfs (100 uf / 400v) while they are on sale (20% off till the end of the month, which may be enough to cover shipping from Canada. why is it cheaper to ship from everyplace else on the planet than Canada).
ADDED, I wonder what Duelunds would sound like if they were made in the needed values?
Hey John - Duelunds would be sweet! Too pricy for my blood. I think the VSF's go pretty high, but the price gets nuts! I'm listening to The Mundorf 59uf MKP's that arrived yesterday from Parts Connection. Brand new of course, but they sound very good. I replaced the electrolytic cathode bypass caps (1000uf) in the Quickie with them. I checked some calculations and 59uf is plenty big enough to not roll off the bass. Paul said 40uf would be enough so I bought a bit bigger to error on caution.
I'm a Mundorf fan, so I'm a bit biased. I have about a dozen of them here and there. I think they are a good value.
Cheers - Eric
Grainger49
New member
Eric,
I am burning in (link) for 3 weeks a pair of Mundorf 0.47uF Silver Gold for my Eros. I couldn't pass up the Parts ConneXion (link) sale.
The Mundorf Silver caps (2uF) in my FP 2 are the most expensive cap that I have ever bought, but not heard. So with the sale I bumped it up for the Eros. It is designed with a lower value (0.47uF). The Foreplays need something higher. PJ has even challenged me to try a 0.22uF in my Eros.
Sorry for all the Eros mentions in a Crack thread...
I am burning in (link) for 3 weeks a pair of Mundorf 0.47uF Silver Gold for my Eros. I couldn't pass up the Parts ConneXion (link) sale.
The Mundorf Silver caps (2uF) in my FP 2 are the most expensive cap that I have ever bought, but not heard. So with the sale I bumped it up for the Eros. It is designed with a lower value (0.47uF). The Foreplays need something higher. PJ has even challenged me to try a 0.22uF in my Eros.
Sorry for all the Eros mentions in a Crack thread...
Hey Granger - How goes it? Very cool burn in rig - has to be about as simple as they get. ! Thats putting your engineering skills to good use!
In general, as far as burn in goes, I havent really noticed much of a difference with component burn in, outside of the first few hours. A new solder joint tends to sound better over about an hour or so as well. For me, if the component has some disagreeable qualities, they usually dont go away after the first few hours of use. I good example is the Emotiva amp I bought recently. That thing is PACKED with electronics. Most likely not of the highest grade as well (for $700 they cant be). Its sound has changed some over the hours, but not much. I liked it out of the box. Very agreeable, nice and well behaved. Not what I would have expected from such a complex low cost SS beast.
Dont get me wrong, I do subscribe to the adage 'everything makes a difference', I think its a matter of degree. What mood I'm in certainly is a much bigger factor than any of the others, on any given day.
Currious to hear your take on the Silver/Golds (are they the oilers?)! My prediction would be more detail and resolution, along the lines of Teflon.
Cheers - Eric
In general, as far as burn in goes, I havent really noticed much of a difference with component burn in, outside of the first few hours. A new solder joint tends to sound better over about an hour or so as well. For me, if the component has some disagreeable qualities, they usually dont go away after the first few hours of use. I good example is the Emotiva amp I bought recently. That thing is PACKED with electronics. Most likely not of the highest grade as well (for $700 they cant be). Its sound has changed some over the hours, but not much. I liked it out of the box. Very agreeable, nice and well behaved. Not what I would have expected from such a complex low cost SS beast.
Dont get me wrong, I do subscribe to the adage 'everything makes a difference', I think its a matter of degree. What mood I'm in certainly is a much bigger factor than any of the others, on any given day.
Currious to hear your take on the Silver/Golds (are they the oilers?)! My prediction would be more detail and resolution, along the lines of Teflon.
Cheers - Eric
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