jrebman said:
Yoder, please re--read what I have posted -- I do run the system in my listening room with a usb keyboard and a pair of iPod type collapsible headphones plugged into the mini's 3.5mm audio out, and I did tell people that they will need a monitor and keyboard to install and configure things and to make larger changes, rip CDs (unless they do it on another workstation) and so on. I actually find it hard to believe you find it necessary to challenge me on whether running a mini as a headless music server is viable -- people do it all the time (thanks for the input, John) and yes, I do use an iPod Touch for that, but just about any laptop or idevice will do.
Now, you have said something that really confirms my suspicion when you say that you can't hear a difference when you unplugged the monitor. What you confirmed is that, whether it be the gear, the local power grid, your room acoustics or your listening preferences/prejudices, you and I are not hearing the same things at all. Un plugging the monitor from the mini was a very significant clearing of the sound in my system. It is often the case as well, that removing something (rather than adding) is often a more obvious test of the effect that piece has on the overall sound. I've also become quite good over the years at determining (to my ears) if a change is truly an upgrade or a lateral or backwards move -- most are lateral at best, from what I can tell. In other words, they are different, not necessarily better. So, this is not a challenge to your manhood, not a slam of your gear or anything like that, just a fact that apparently you, for whatever reason, are not getting the same kind of sonic picture that I am. And that is just fine -- it simply doesn't matter at all to anybody -- if you like what you hear, and are satisfied with it, then so be it. Who am I to tell you what you hear and how it effects your enjoyment -- and likewise, who are you to question and challenge me on what I hear and how I enjoy my music? If it works for you... don't worry, be happy.
Now, did you say that a macbook in clamshell mode "should sound the same" or did you say "does" sound better or the same? Again, I've tried this with my 2010 13" mbp and on a late 2009 white macbook and both were an equal step downwards from the mini. Again, if you actually did this test and those are your results, fine -- they are not my results and they are not InfernoSTIs either (not to mention the many other people who have confirmed this for themselves.
So, once again, if this thread is of no interest to you, if you are not able to hear the differences in one of the more obvious changes (removing the monitor), and you want to continue to challenge inconsequential concepts such as running a mini headless, and if you continue to insist that things you have not tried for yourself *should* sound some particular way, then please just stop. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and making you follow my recommendations -- if they don't work for you, please just move along to another topic.
And just in case you didn't notice, I am not making a dime on this in any way shape or form, have nothing to sell, no product to push; just trying to help out some fellow music lovers get the most from their systems. All this is doing is taking my time, effort and a bit more BS than I bargained for. Maybe Bob was right -- can we continue the mac mini discussion without the animosity? I guess not, and that is really a shame. Very soon the constant challenges, offline nasty-grams and other BS is just going to make me throw in the towel, and I'll just write up a tutorial/how-to and email it to the guys who seem to be interested.
Jim, I think you are reading too much into things and are getting too personal. The only reference I saw regarding your stating the use of keyboard was: "Note, you will need a keyboard and display to get through all this and to get things setup for headless operation, but once that is done you should only need them for making any changes." I have always advocated the use of a monitor/TV if one wants to utilize an audio system (just unplug when listening only) while watching a flick or streaming video, not to mention the extensive OS tweaks that I and others like to perform. I am aware that people go headless, but in doing so most have a second Apple device. Not everyone can afford a second apple device, in which case the non-headless dual-boot format is the most affordable and should be addressed if we want to spread the "word." If one just has a MBP, then it is a viable option until a mini can be afforded...is there anything wrong with just putting it out there? I use my system for both audio and video and there may be others out there who want the same. I have clam shelled both a mid-2010 17" MBP, and 15" MBP i7 Quad. There were differences between the two and I would compare the 17" to the mid-2010 duo mini as far as audio quality goes, and the 15" MBP to my 2011 i7 5,2 mini. The only problem was that the first two were not running Amarra, and the last two newer Mac's were (I have eight Mac's in the house.) This leads to a point you brought up earlier. I said if the clam shell MBP had SSD, ran in dual-boot, and had external FW drives then it will be "equally as successful." A Mac Pro would probably blow the mini out of the water, but who can afford one?
Regarding the perceived improved sound when using Lion. The improved sound quality of Lion is the result of using the iX processors, having faster bus speeds, etc, and I am using two such a systems now (mini and 15" MBP.) Regarding what you say are differences in hearing is true. I am not taking personal jabs at you, but am merely posting alternatives and trying to stimulate dialog. Maybe some will hear things like you, and maybe some will hear things like me, or may be they will hear their own thing. The point is that we should entertain all ideas and go with where we can get the highest cost-performance ratio affordable.
When you say: "So, this is not a challenge to your manhood, not a slam of your gear or anything like that, just a fact that apparently you, for whatever reason, are not getting the same kind of sonic picture that I am. And that is just fine -- it simply doesn't matter at all to anybody -- if you like what you hear, and are satisfied with it, then so be it. Who am I to tell you what you hear and how it effects your enjoyment -- and likewise, who are you to question and challenge me on what I hear and how I enjoy my music? If it works for you... don't worry, be happy." And, then to say that what I say "simply doesn't matter at all to anybody" is a rather vicious, vitriolic thing to say and unwarrented. Having worked with Mac's for years, been trained by Apple in hardware repair,and OS X Server, and been part of the Mac Developer Network then maybe, just maybe, there is something that matters to somebody on this forum when it comes to Mac's.
You also say: "Maybe Bob was right -- can we continue the mac mini discussion without the animosity? I guess not, and that is really a shame," yet from the very beginning you said my theoretical speculations were not invited and I should take them elsewhere, implied that my objective facts (Lion running in integer mode) were so much bull-pucky and you mis-quoted Ron Robinson in doing so (I have the quote in the other thread,) and yet is was you in the center of the battle that closed the other thread. Furthermore, you came after me regarding my points of view on hard drive use, and when I gave my opinion that FW800 was far superior to USB and provided data to back it up then you again snapped at me. In both of these instances I did not respond. Finally, you spun your way out of my questing Mach2Music removing 1.8 Gb of OS code. BTW: they don't: 1) the OS is only 3.8 Gb in size and this mode code would virtually disable it, 2) when you talk of removing code you refer to lines of code not size, 3) the Apple Developer Network does not work this way, and 4) Apple does not allow such to happen per the EULA and ADN contract. What they do is go into the system and remove various items that will not be of any use. I unhid the system files and found about 2.5 Gb of sys apps/utls I could remove. I go over it some in the other thread. My point with Mach2, is that the end-user can do what they do themselves without spending $399. But, there are some who don't want to bother with it and so more power to them if they buy the tweak. For those who would rather do it themselves, then their wants should be respected and if there is information out there showing then let us lead the way.
I have admitted that I do not know all there is about audio, but I am learning and researching it profusely. Having taught for 24 years I have learned to answer questions that others may have and have learned to respect the needs of the learner, and not condemn them and put them in the corner for asking what may seem like mundane/trivial questions. With a forum new people are always coming in and have no idea what has been discussed in the past...no need to get our shorts tied-up in a knot when they do ask mundane questions. I imagine Doc has answered a few questions hundreds, if not thousands, of times over the years. Also, being almost 60 it takes more than disagreement to "challenge my manhood," in fact, there really is nothing that does such since I am happy with who I am. Anyway, it takes patience to teach and/or disseminate information. If someone brings up AC cords, and a noob comes in asking for some objectivity verification then those in the know should point it out as succinctly/politely as possible or point them to the thread, and go about the topic at hand.
Nobody here, well maybe except the BH crew, is making a dime. I spend a lot of time researching and building my Web
http://www.co-bw.com site and I actually spend money to share my research and information.
I certainly hope that you are not saying that I am sending you "offline nasty grams." In fact, that statement is very misleading since you are lambasting me and then include the remark in the same post. For the public record, I have never sent Jim a "nasty gram." In fact, I have told you that I value your knowledge and have asked for your help in the past and drove 90 miles one way to not only buy some speakers but to get some help from you, and to help you. I do not understand why "constant challenges" would make you want to throw in the towel, and if my questions/comments are perceived as BS then what can I say? You seem to get angry when people may have a different opinion than you or ask you questions. It is not an attack on you, but some of us like facts and data. There is so much audio mumbo-jumbo and snake oil out there makes it essential to support what you say. If one method sounds great to you, and a different method sounds great to me then this is no reason to get upset. Instead, embrace it and encourage the reader to try it and see what he/she thinks.
No hard feelings, and I hope your pops has a speedy recovery.
Ron
