In search of why vinyl lovers love vinyl

Chris,

Us old guys upgrade in steps to hide what we are up to.  For anyone getting the cash for a top notch turntable (these don't often include arms and never cartridges) is a major outlay.  I'm still hanging on my old mantra that the cartridge makes the greatest difference in sound.  I mean, the cartridge creates (generates) the voltage signal that gets amplified.  So, obviously, it is the most additive part of the vinyl playback.  The turntable and arm are mostly subtractive in their effects.  So if you don't start with it in your cartridge the arm and table can not put it back.

Gee, that is almost a pearl of wisdom.
 
This is an interesting journey.  It's going to be a challenging process for me to decipher what the weakest links in the chain are and decide which one's I'm prepared to tackle.  For instance, right now I'm well aware that this setup doesn't yet produce a sound stage nearly as good as I get with my digital setup.  The center of the sound stage seems very dense to my ear. How much is the result of the cartridge, a first time cartridge alignment, the quality of the stylus, the phono preamp, a cheap TT, or something else?  How long should I be allowing the cartridge to break-in before judging the sound critically to the degree to change something else in the chain?  These are some of the things I guess I'll be wondering about for a while. 
 
Actually, I can tell right now what the weakest link in the chain is - that's the condition of the vinyl.  I'm need to come up with a cleaning system for these things.  I'll have a hard time noticing other improvements unless I fix this first.
 
That is an absolutely accurate observation, cleaning makes a huge difference.  I am using a Nitty Gritty, Grainger is using a VPI 16.5.  I like his better but I should for 2.5 times the price.  The Nitty Gritty does a fine job and I can recommend it for a cheap entry into record cleaning.  But this is a great topic to be searching through the archives on the vinyl asylum as it has been discussed there in great detail and in depth.

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/bbs.html
 
And another site, AudioKarma.  This is the turntable folder, a search of "Cleaning LP" gave over 200 threads for hits, including a favorite, using wood glue to clean vinyl.  It is good for deeply soiled LPs but I don't use it on cleaner LPs.

Cleaning your LPs seems to be a hot topic for some.  I have read that one use of the old classic Disk Washer would RUIN your records (it won't, it didn't).  But there are all kinds of routines from the simple to the insane.  Believe it or not, my 10 minute routine for both sides of an LP isn't the insane, I'm about mid way between letting the stylus clean the grooves (an equipment reviewer who wrote for Listener stated that) and the truly insane.
 
Well, it's been an interesting month.  First, my short circuit to a entry level table from ebay backfired and I sent it back.  I ended up deciding to get a new cartridge for my nearly 30 year old, very entry level, P300 TT.  Yes, this TT worthy of no serious consideration was to be the platform I am making my judgements on vinyl on - at least for now.  I reseached cartridges.  Became overwhelmed by the variety of possible cartrideges to buy, etc. How can the variety be so large for a technology that's supposed to be dead?  Or are reports of death exagerated?  In the end I bought a Shure M97XE for reasons I don't actually remember.  I read comments for and against it.  I read up on how to align the thing for a couple of weeks before it arrived.  I finally got the courage to mount and align it.  When I started playing it I could tell it sounded a little better than that ancient and abused Ortofon LM20.  Not enough better to give serious consideration.  But I had been given this pile of vinyl from my neighbor want to get rid of his stuff.  So I used it to break in cartridge.  I've been playing album after album.  I've been playing that old vinyl for about two weeks now.  Last weekend I went to one of the few used CD/record shops and pick up a few $1 and $2 albums as well.  Most of the stuff is poor condition and needs cleaning.  However, with in the last week however the sound has improved quite dramatically.  The surface noise has diminished.  And I'm hearing music.  Actually, it sounds....... good.  I don't understand why it can sound good.  It seems like such a cro magnon technology, dragging a needle through a groove.  But I notice two things of interest to me.  One, it sounds much better than I expected.  Even some of the crappy vinyl sounds pleasing.  Second, there is an aesthetic to vinyl that belongs to that medium.  I can't put words to it yet but it's real.  I'm experiencing something new here.  I'm surprised I'm enjoying it.  I have been expecting to write off the purchase of the cartridge fully expecting that I'd conclude it's too inferior of a technology to go back and embrace once again. The cost of a cartridge would be worth it to put and end to my question.  Instead I'm looking for more places with vinyl bins that I can puruse and I'm starting to research record cleaning.  I honestly don't know where this is leading.  I wasn't supposed to get this far.  So now I'm fully off script and wondering where I go from here.  But, there's no rush.  Oh, and yes, my wife is a little worried.... again.  But then she's probably used to it by now. 
 
Yeah but tube amps are supposed to be a dead ancient technology as well. As far as cleaning goes I use a gem dandy. Inexpensive and very effective. Does make a mess of the kitchen sink though. I clean all records with the gem dandy prior to storage. Then when I take them out I clean them off with a carbon fiber record brush and blow any remaining dust off with compressed air. Works great for me. There are as many methods and opinions on cleaning as on stylus selection. As with most other things I try to ignore both extremes and firmly occupy the middle ground. Enjoy.
 
Chris,

I warned you about damaging LPs with an old stylus now I need to warn you about stylus wear.  The cleaner the LP the longer your stylus lasts.  To that end look at the link below.  I have used this method on LPs that I couldn't find in "Mint" condition.  I have never damaged an LP and every LP cleaned with Titebond II has had a lot of noise and many, many of the ticks and pops removed.  It does nothing for scratches.  I have never had all the pops and clicks removed, it is probable the vinyl was damaged and that can't be "removed." 

Think of it as a vinyl facial mask, or Biore' strip for your vinyl.

But if you play dirty LPs with a nice new stylus you will be wearing the stylus prematurely. 

AudioKarma Wood Glue As A Vinyl Cleaner
 
I may sound like a broke newbie, but are there affordable services that could clean my whole lot of records, or would the price be more than the cost of a decent record cleaning system. I looked at the GEM Daddy, and at under $200 that seems to be the best deal going for something with so many positive reviews. But time is an issue too, I have never truly cleaned any of my records except with an old Discwasher I found in the attic, and I really don't feel like going through almost 200 LPs in the kitchen sink.
 
In order: No, Maybe.  

I know of no service for getting your LPs clean.  I have only recently heard of GEM Dandy (the Google search comes up with GEM Dandy Hydraulic Record Cleaning Apparatus).  I have a VPI 16.5 which goes used now regularly for $350 if you look for a little bit (do not buy the 16, which is older and cheaper and more awkward to use).  I will have to take a look at the GEM and get back to you.

I take it using Titebond II doesn't appeal to you.
 
It actually does, but It's another whole time issue. I guess I'll just have to do one of the two, no matter the time. a little here....a few there. Might as well start alphabetically: First up, Air Supply.
 
Thanks to all for feedback on cleaning records.  Grainger, I will heed your latest warning about dirty records wearing the stylus.  I am surprised how the sound changed as the cartridge and stylus have been breaking in.  I suspect a good part of the change is the stylus breaking in to real vinyl grooves.  If so the prospect of dirtry grooves being a serious source of stylus wear makes further sense to me.

How ofter to people typically clear their LP's, as in after how many plays?

 
I clean my LPs when bought new or after first listening to new-to-me used LPs.  I want to know how they sound first (I do dust with the Zerostat and if needed give them a minor clean with the Diskwasher).  

Thereafter I dust them with the Zerostat before and sometimes after playing.  My cat sleeps nights in my listening room (the TT is covered completely).

Edit: I have now read the GEM Dandy review on 6 Moons.  I think I will keep my VPI 16.5.
 
Grainger,
Is your point that the VPI 16.5 is more convenient to use or that you think the GEM Dandy does not clean vinyl well?

Chris
 
a 16.5 is definitely more convenient but after getting the gem dandy I sold my 16.5.

As far as spending time cleaning all your records, just clean them as you listen to them. Tightbond is great for really dirty records and Mr Clean Magic Erasers are great for stylus cleaning. Are lots of really good home remedies.
 
Chris,

Yes, that was my point.  But I have no idea how well the GEM Dandy works.  The description sounds more inconvenient for sure.

I read this:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/gem/dandy.html

And remember I read it a few days ago, and I need more coffee at this hour.

My impression is that the GEM Dandy would require me to take my LPs down stairs to the kitchen.  There is no sink large enough to contain the spray upstairs.  I am not even sure the largest sink in the house would contain the spray.  I don't remember any drying process with the GEM Dandy (it is not supplied and could leave lint on the LP).  When using VPI, when I am through with cleaning, my LP goes back into the slip and I start another.  With the the GEM Dandy I don't see anything that assures that the whole LP is rinsed evenly.

These might be misconceptions as I have not seen a GEM Dandy.  When I read I could see these questions appearing in my mind as I read the review.  I also see myself squirting water around the Kitched, I'm messy.  The fluids are well contained with my 16.5.  I mop up the little liquid that I have sloshed off all of the LPs cleaned with one or two Kleenexes.
 
You do need a decent size sink, primary issue being depth to contain spray. I actually clean my records in my downstairs bathroom (I live in Japan and most Japanese bathrooms are designed to be giant showers. The walls and floors are completely tiled and there is a big drain in the middle of the floor.) The first few times you will probably make a mess but after you get the hang of it it's not much more of a mess than washing the dishes. I also made a thin rubber gasket to cover the record label. The one provided worked but was a little finicky as it was a ring and not a solid disc.

I pat my records dry with a lint free microfiber towel, brush them, and then either store or lube and play.

The whole record is pressure washed. A couple spins of the record and any cleaning solution you apply will be thoroughly flushed away.

The only real "issue" that I could foresee is if you have hard water caused by high mineral concentrations. Don't know if you would run into issues with remaining residue but I suppose you could.

In my completely subjective opinion I thought that the records seemed cleaner and presented a blacker background. Being generally lazy however there are certainly times when I miss the convenience of the 16.5.

I think both are great products and just about anyone would be happy with either.

 
I also vaguely recall there being an attachment so you can use your garden hose, hence doing all your cleaning outside. I've got a gem dandy on the way.


Rich
 
ssssly,

It sounds like Japanese sinks are like Japanese tubs, deep.  Looking again at the pictures on the internet it is now obvious to me that the Plexiglas is intended as a splash guard.

Knoxville's water is extremely hard.  My house has a water softener on it.  Of course, the garden hoses are not on the softener.  I don't need soft grass.  Well, my grass is soft but you know what I mean.
 
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