DAC progress

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Back in college , I bought some new gear that , at the time, was the best i ever had... i was so excited that I , for awhile, just HAD to come home for lunch JUST to fire it up and listen... SO, if this DAC is going to be awesome...... How about calling it  "THE NOONER".......... SO good, you just HAVE to come home for lunch to "fire her up"............ :)
 
Chris said:
I HOPE that the dac is made with the new ESS Sabre chip..... seems alot of people think is hands down the best sounding chip ever.........

Probably not.  The DAC has been under development for quite some time.  The resulting sound has a lot more to do with the associated circuitry and power supply than just the chip.
 
Our DAC prototype uses the PCM 1704 R2R type DAC chip. This project was inspired a few years ago when some friends were starting to work with high res music servers, and at that time the consensus was that carefully implemented R2R DACs sounded better than sigma delta DACs. So far that seems to be holding true for us. The project is moving slowly, as I promised. ;^)> I'm trying to get hold of an M2Tech USB:SPDIF interface to work with on the next phase of development, but they seem to still be backordered when I check the distributor's website.
 
You know there will be lots of us waiting to "pop out of the woodwork" and pounce on the DAC when it does come out! I would imagine that the response will be very good, esp. if you can manage to keep the initial price around that of commonly-available up-sampling SS DAC's (i.e., in the $400-$900 range).
 
OK Guys, thank you for the response, and disregard my question on headphone cable in another post I cant remember where..... I finally found it on your site and got my question answered by doin' a little readin'............    thanks again
 
Oh Bottlehead,  I have been waiting patiently for the dac kit, checking in once in a while to see if the kit is for sale.  I have been putting off the foreplay III purchase until i get the dac kit, still,...Nada.  Will or can you guys send out an email to us when the kit becomes available?  Any Estimated Time of Arrival? Thanks Doc.
 
We did a bit of listening to some 24/96K stuff in Winston Ma's beautiful room last week with the new DAC and my EMU0404usb sound card with an external power supply. Unfortunately my netbook got badly fragmented loading some high res files and we could only play 2 to 3 minute long segments of music until I sorted out the problem the next day. But that was enough to convince me that the DAC will stand well with what is out there. Mr. Swenson is working on the SPDIF interface, and once that is finished up he will be testing the DAC with a couple of reasonably priced sound cards that should work well. From there we will begin to work on the final packaging of the electronics.
 
sound sexciting,

my target platform with be my mac laptop so maybe I need a little box between the mac and the DAC...

PS. Speaking of Winston... check out his K2HD remaster of the Getz/Gilberto classic...LIM K2HD 036....  I have the CD but it is also avaliable in the premium Ultimate Disk category...
that is if you don't have the Mofi out of production CD. I have both and enjoy the differences in the two masterings.

 
Doc,

So are you still planning on a synced spdif connection, or will things like the hiface work with this dac?

BTW, you can also get the Getz Gilberto classic from HDTracks as a 24/96 download.

-- Jim
 
The Hiface is something we're looking into. In the meantime we plan to work with cards that should work very well - EMU 0404USB, EMU 1212m, Juli@, and Lynx II. I use the 0404USB as a USB/TOSLINK interface with my Acer netbook and it sounds quite good. I expect the SPDIF setup will be as good or better.
 
John Swenson has been making great headway on the DAC. He is closing in on getting the DAC to automatically recognize the sample rate of a given file - pretty cool. He is waiting for me to send him some funds to purchase a few different sound cards to verify their function with it. And I'm waiting for you guys to buy enough products this week so I can send John the funds...
 
Ooh, very exciting. I've been lookin at DAC's for a starving college student budget, and I don't mind skipping a meal or two if it means I can really find out how these AIFF files sound.
 
I am curious is the DAC will incorporate a tube and the same overall design theme that the other bottlehead products have.  Also what is the estimated target price for this bad boy?
 
I'm not going to comment on the price, thats not my department! The design uses 1704 DAC chips which have a current output. The DAC chip drives a stepup transformer with an IV resistor after the transformer (PJ is looking into different arrangements, maybe splitting the resistance, some in front of the transformer and some behind, or just all behind, I personally like the all behind). This gives low impedance to the DAC (10 ohms) and still gives some voltage gain before the tube stage.  The tube stage then gives some extra gain and buffering to the output.

This scheme is not very common, many designs put a IV resistor after the DAC chip, but you then have to choose, a high value resistor which gives enough voltage to drive a line output BUT causes distortion because of the high impedance the DAC sees, OR a small value resistor which gives appropriate impedance to the DAC chip, BUT needs a high gain amplification stage (similar to a phono stage). The technique we are using lets the DAC chip see the low impedance, but provides enough voltage gain that the tube stage only has to supply a moderate amount of gain.

The transformer also provides the high frequency filtering after the DAC chip so you don't need to add extra components to implement that function.

Right now I'm working on the digitally controlled super low jitter oscillator that can track any S/PDIF input. The original design philosophy was to send a S/PDIF stream from the DAC back to the soundcard which would sync its output to the DAC, this gives extremely low jitter IF you have a soundcard that supports this function. Unfortunately if you fed it from a source without the sync from the DAC you would occasionally drop bits. This turned out to actually sound pretty good, a lot better than I thought it would.

It turns out the company that makes the oscillators I'm using also makes a digitally controlled version which allows you to change the clock frequency in very tiny steps on the fly. I'm trying out one of these right now and have the frequency changing part working (I got it working about an hour ago!)  With this I should be able to track the frequency of any input. It won't be quite as good as the source synced to the DAC, so that is still the preferred connection, but it should allow you guys to use this DAC with pretty much anything.

On the AES/EBU front, I'm not planning on putting it in the DAC itself, but it does use BNC connectors and you can buy BNC to AES/EBU transformers which should work. My take is that S/PDIF over BNC is technically a better interface than AES/EBU so I'm not going to compromise the DAC by building in what I consider to be an inferior interface. For those that have DACs with JUST AES/EBU you can use the transformers.

John S.
 
Things just got a bit more interesting with the announcement of the new M2 Tech Hi-Face EVO, which reportedly will have a clock input as well as some  other goodies, and will sell for under $500.

John, I hope you can get one of these to test with.

-- Jim
 
Is there a rough guess as to when this will be available?

I am in the market for a DAC and wondering if I should get something relatively inexpensive while waiting for this or, if this is still a year out, shell out some real cash for something good?
 
It's going to be a least two or three more months before we have it all worked out, and then it will take a little time to work out the final product details. Right now the emphasis is on getting Stereomour shipped, and next week we start our move into our new office. In September things should ease up a bit and we hope to get back on the DAC development.
 
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