DAC progress

[jrebman]

Hey Steve,

Hopefully we'll get a chance to meet this year.  Keep an eye out for me as I can't do that .  As far as I know, myself and another blind guy, Guido Corona, will be the only two blind guys there.  Guido and I have been friends for many years frm our days in assitive technology, and only discovered our mutual audio addiction about 7 years ago.  He won't mind if you mistake me for him and vice-versa.

Hope to see you there,

Jim

 

[Doc B]

Jeeze,.. with all that time to spare, you should mod something!

I did. We just modded the Paramounts to fully balanced output, and the K1Ks have really nice bass now. We also tweaked the DAC a bit with a simple first order filter to keep out any VHF nasties. So everything we bring will be the latest tweaked version - Crack with the lowered output impedance update, production prototype Smack with balanced cans, prototype S.E.X. 2.1 with the prototype C4S upgrade, and the Paramount 300B monoblocks with balanced output.

Now if I could just get those ribbon headphones working right by showtime...

 

[ironbut]

Dan,
You never disappoint me!

Jim,
Look forward to meet you and your buddy (and any other Bottleheads)!

 

[Yoder]

Luckily I just took out a couple of transistors (aka three legged fuses). DAC is up and running and sounding better than ever now that all the DAC and tube output bits are close together in one chassis. Working up a playlist this afternoon that should let folks get a feel for what she can do at both 44K and 96K, and then we pack and ship the gear to Denver tomorrow.

Looking forward to hearing it, and seeing all of you up there. Plan on attending both Fri and Sat.

 

[JohnLL]

Doc I have been waiting over a year for your DAC. I waited because of John S and his reputation. I am a little disappointed that you say you are trying to to squeeze this little kit under $1K. Your business, your choice. John is finished, and it may be worth the wait, but it is now time to come out of the closet. I do not care a hoot about hi-res but I want to know if I need to buy a reclocker box like the mod Hiface or other. I really want to hear from John S what he has done. Please!   

 

[JohnLL]

Doc I have been waiting over a year for your DAC. I waited because of John S and his reputation. I am a little disappointed that you say you are trying to to squeeze this little kit under $1K. Your business, your choice. John is finished, and it may be worth the wait, but it is now time to come out of the closet. I do not care a hoot about hi-res but I want to know if I need to buy a reclocker box like the mod Hiface or other. I really want to hear from John S what he has done. Please!   

 

[Doc B]

I'm still not sure of the price myself. I probably need to stop guesstimating that kind of thing and just tell folks that they will know when I know. I do know that we will use the same costing formula that we use for pricing all of our products. Which, by the way, is a smaller markup than the industry standard. I should probably let my advisors prevail and we should increase prices across the board by 60%. But I'm pretty stubborn on that point...

Regarding reclocking, we started with the idea that there would be a need to reclock whatever the DAC was connected to. But John came up with a way to avoid that, that sounds better. I think I've shared the more central features in these threads - PCM 1704 chips, 192kHz capability, SPDIF and optional USB inputs, multiple well regulated power supplies, options for sample rate display, tube output. I don't speak for John, if he wishes to talk about the project it's fine with me. If not, I understand. He is a very busy guy and this project has been a longer and more involved process than I suspect either of us anticipated. It's not for lack of enthusiasm for the project, it sounds really good. Currently I am the impediment, having to finish up some other business items before I can put time and money into the next phase. Those other items are coming to a close and more progress toward a final prototype should be happening soon, as in this month.

 

[JohnLL]

Doc I have been waiting over a year for your DAC. I waited because of John S and his reputation. I am a little disappointed that you say you are trying to to squeeze this little kit under $1K. Your business, your choice. John is finished, and it may be worth the wait, but it is now time to come out of the closet. I do not care a hoot about hi-res but I want to know if I need to buy a reclocker box like the mod Hiface or other. I really want to hear from John S what he has done. Please! 

That is my bumped post Doc. It is great to hear that John's S work will not need a reclocker box. Great! I  would like to hear him say that, but a techie explanation would go way over my head. The only thing I know about chips is that I like them with dip. I am surprised the point of the post was lost on you. I am assuming you are plunged into the whole audio fool mess and that you realize these reclocker boxs run +- $600 with the extra cable.Add that to your 1K and a BH upgrade or two you could be around 2K.

Thankfully John S has figured out a way of avoiding the reclocker boxes! Perhaps 1K for your kit is not so bad. I will wait and see. John 

 

[Chris]

1704 and multiple power supplies , sounds great! I have a 1702 dac with careful power supply design , that sounds superb, so i suspect a 1704 version I have always wanted, so this is exciting... can I ask you  Doc, why the 1704 and not the latest ESS sabre chip? do you guys prefer the 1704s sound, i have no experience myself with the ESS chip, so i am just curious if your crew has....  thank you

 

[Grainger49]

JohnLL sounds like you are not familiar with the Bottlehead gestation.  It is often longer than expected and announced but yields top notch products.  

Posting the same thing three times is completely unnecessary.  Bottlehead has a number of products under development right now.  The Smack is taking Doc's time this week.  It is getting ready for release in the next few weeks.  There is also a high end preamp in addition to the DAC which Doc is trying to refine to his satisfaction.  There is a prototype that has been shown at two gatherings.

Bottlehead is not a digital company.  This is a new area for them.  My experience, with Bottlehead, is the products often take longer than first announced and are worth the wait.

 

[InfernoSTi]

I want to say a few things regarding the direction this product development conversation has taken recently.

First, I don't know too many companies who are willing to discuss their product development on-line AND share their early prototypes with the audio public.  This kind of interaction is great but with it comes two responsibilities for those waiting for the product: patience and loyalty.  If we were to lack either, it would be in BH's best interest to not share in the manner they do (think of the Apple model). This needs to be a two-way relationship.

Second, how easy is it to have a bunch of audiophiles give their collective "wish list" on a dynamic source component that may have seen the most change/progress of ANY audio component in the the last five years?  If it were "that easy" everyone would be doing it...which, in a way, they are.  The level of competition, the pace of change, and the advance of the collective knowledge base is tremendous.  Let's cut a bit of slack to a non-digital company for trying to develop a product worthy of their name.  That kind of effort needs to be celebrated for the journey as much as the destination.

Third, it is tiresome to see people focused on "self" so much they seem to think that when they decided this might be a product they wanted, that the whole world needed to stop everything else until they were had what they wanted.  There is much more satisfaction in the friendship of the BH Forum than anything else.  Let the self go and support the team...you will feel better about everything, I promise you.  Does it sound like I am preaching?  Yes, and that is because some are getting aggressively focused on themselves, not supporting the team and that isn't good for the team. 

If you want to support the BH DAC project, send a note to Doc saying you would buy the product, purchase other BH kits to keep the company profitable, support the forum in a constructive manner (i.e. support others first), and when Doc announces he is having an open house to listen to the prototype, make an effort to attend, listen, and then share your experience with others.  In short, be positive and focus on others first (yes, this is the opposite of being negative and focusing on self first): simple stuff that should be applied to everything in life, not just the BH DAC thread, and a real shame that it has to be said at all.  Just my two cents....

John

 

[xcortes]

I think it should do ADC, 64 bit 512kHz, have a headphone output (Ni opts, of course) and use mercury rectifiers. Digital processing capabilities to use it as a crossover would be mandatory if the price will be above that of the
Quickie.

 

[debk]

I want to say a few things regarding the direction this product development conversation has taken recently.

First, I don't know too many companies who are willing to discuss their product development on-line AND share their early prototypes with the audio public.  This kind of interaction is great but with it comes two responsibilities for those waiting for the product: patience and loyalty.  If we were to lack either, it would be in BH's best interest to not share in the manner they do (think of the Apple model). This needs to be a two-way relationship.

Second, how easy is it to have a bunch of audiophiles give their collective "wish list" on a dynamic source component that may have seen the most change/progress of ANY audio component in the the last five years?  If it were "that easy" everyone would be doing it...which, in a way, they are.  The level of competition, the pace of change, and the advance of the collective knowledge base is tremendous.  Let's cut a bit of slack to a non-digital company for trying to develop a product worthy of their name.  That kind of effort needs to be celebrated for the journey as much as the destination.

Third, it is tiresome to see people focused on "self" so much they seem to think that when they decided this might be a product they wanted, that the whole world needed to stop everything else until they were had what they wanted.  There is much more satisfaction in the friendship of the BH Forum than anything else.  Let the self go and support the team...you will feel better about everything, I promise you.  Does it sound like I am preaching?  Yes, and that is because some are getting aggressively focused on themselves, not supporting the team and that isn't good for the team. 

If you want to support the BH DAC project, send a note to Doc saying you would buy the product, purchase other BH kits to keep the company profitable, support the forum in a constructive manner (i.e. support others first), and when Doc announces he is having an open house to listen to the prototype, make an effort to attend, listen, and then share your experience with others.  In short, be positive and focus on others first (yes, this is the opposite of being negative and focusing on self first): simple stuff that should be applied to everything in life, not just the BH DAC thread, and a real shame that it has to be said at all.  Just my two cents....

John

John

Well said!  Bottlehead is a unique company, with unheard of customer service, and this is the most civil forum I have ever been on.

I look forward to the DAC, and support Doc and crew in their efforts

Thanks

Debra

 

[2wo]

No! Me, me, it's all about me!

I think I have been fairly patient , here's my post from 2006

http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=bottlehead&n=107907&highlight=DAC+2wo&r=&search_url=%2Fcgi%2Fsearch.mpl%3Fsearchtext%3Dphilnyc%26SelectForumtubes%3Dtubes

 

[JohnLL]

"I want to say a few things regarding the direction this product development conversation has taken recently.

First, I don't know too many companies who are willing to discuss their product development on-line AND share their early prototypes with the audio public.  This kind of interaction is great but with it comes two responsibilities for those waiting for the product: patience and loyalty.  If we were to lack either, it would be in BH's best interest to not share in the manner they do (think of the Apple model). This needs to be a two-way relationship.

Second, how easy is it to have a bunch of audiophiles give their collective "wish list" on a dynamic source component that may have seen the most change/progress of ANY audio component in the the last five years?  If it were "that easy" everyone would be doing it...which, in a way, they are.  The level of competition, the pace of change, and the advance of the collective knowledge base is tremendous.  Let's cut a bit of slack to a non-digital company for trying to develop a product worthy of their name.  That kind of effort needs to be celebrated for the journey as much as the destination.

Third, it is tiresome to see people focused on "self" so much they seem to think that when they decided this might be a product they wanted, that the whole world needed to stop everything else until they were had what they wanted.  There is much more satisfaction in the friendship of the BH Forum than anything else.  Let the self go and support the team...you will feel better about everything, I promise you.  Does it sound like I am preaching?  Yes, and that is because some are getting aggressively focused on themselves, not supporting the team and that isn't good for the team.

If you want to support the BH DAC project, send a note to Doc saying you would buy the product, purchase other BH kits to keep the company profitable, support the forum in a constructive manner (i.e. support others first), and when Doc announces he is having an open house to listen to the prototype, make an effort to attend, listen, and then share your experience with others.  In short, be positive and focus on others first (yes, this is the opposite of being negative and focusing on self first): simple stuff that should be applied to everything in life, not just the BH DAC thread, and a real shame that it has to be said at all.  Just my two cents...."

The above is Bottlehead nonsense. For most sane people audio is not a religion, must less BH stuff. I am not your enemy Doc, but I refuse to kneel and become your groupie. I will not trouble you any more. 

 

[InfernoSTi]

The above is Bottlehead nonsense. For most sane people audio is not a religion, must less BH stuff. I am not your enemy Doc, but I refuse to kneel and become your groupie. I will not trouble you any more. 

Please put your ego in check and look at what you are saying, JohnLL.  You can't have it both ways: you don't get first class, personal service AND get to troll on the forum.  I'll stand behind what I said and continue to invite you to see the big picture.  And not being an angry, selfish person really will make you happier.  Just stop being angry and try being constructive with something of value to add to the discussion.

Peace...

 

[Doc B]

I am not your enemy Doc, but I refuse to kneel and become your groupie. I will not trouble you any more. 

Damn, someone told this guy what we really do at those meetings. And I even bought an extra black robe.

Seriously, I'm sorry if you feel like you just got pig-piled. I really did try to answer your questions to the best of my ability. What the other guys said is of course their own opinion, and I think if you met me you would find I'm not looking for fanboys. The DAC is a new direction for us, and it's about the most complicated thing we've ever worked on. Like our other products I want to do one that I feel good about, and there are a lot more little details that need to be worked out than usual. That doesn't necessarily mean adding complexity and cost either. John found a way to eliminate the need for reclocking, and I am experimenting with alternatives to some rather expensive transformers we spec'd for the IV conversion. I know it causes frustration when we start to talk about a design and it takes a lot of time to get it out there - it can frustrate me too, particularly when I am often the impediment - and I understand if people feel they need to buy someone else's product to fit their time frame.

Sorry guys, I'm locking this one before it gets ugly.