Blumenstein Ultra Fi
- Thread starter Doc B
- Start date
I have pair of Thrashers hooked up to my Stereomour, they sound fantastic and easily fill a good sized room. In fact my partner reckons she prefers the sound of the Stereomour + Thrashers to our Orca's + Sub... Not sure I would go quite so far as to agree with that assessment but I would have absolutely no hesitation recommending you pick up a set of Thrashers if you had the opportunity...
Clark B.
New member
denti alligator said:
Thanks for chiming in, folks!
Denti's question for a comparison might be a little more complicated, so I'll handle it.
Firstly, it is important to bear in mind that either the Deluxes or Mini's would work great with either the Sex (2.1 did you mean?) or Stereomour II - and that the viability of these combos is echoed by users' experiences on this forum and elsewhere.
The Deluxes are happy at a slightly lower playback level and are a little creamier in tone, whereas the Mini's are a little more bright and slightly more direct and neutral sounding and have slightly flatter frequency response, but do trade off a little bit of mid bass weight.
Both speakers have their own kind of magic, of course. These differences are intentionally very slight.
I consider our brand to be like a good selection of wine - you'll like each variety or blend for a particular reason, and each has a reason/purpose, even if that is to just be mostly balanced in flavor. Yes, that probably sounds like a hooty tooty explaination to some people but so what.
Best,
Clark
denti alligator
New member
Thanks, Clark!Clark B. said:
I have the 2.0 with MagneQuest All-nickel iron. I'm seriously considering a Stereomour as an upgrade, using the SEX as a headphone amp.
So if I understand you right:
Mini: brighter, more neutral, better mid-range bass
Deluxe: smoother, sound good at low levels
What about the sub?
Clark B.
New member
Denti, I would add:
We know that most listeners out there know themselves well enough to prefer either a warmer and more liquid sound, or a slightly leaner/simply neutral kind of presentation. Or they might need to play things very loud on occasion, but still need warm response all the time.
So we give people the choice between three different optimized single driver fullrange models that each have their own unique capabilities suited to different cultures of listening or different spots in the house, car, sailboat, camper, or outdoor awning, etc. that we have encountered over the years.
Each speaker model has additionally had its moving parts/cone suspension and frequency response tuned to match the average frequency response of the human ear within the volume range/intended use of each respective speaker model.
3" Orca Deluxes: Best at the lowest volumes up to carefully pushed high volumes.
3" Orca Mini's: Can be pushed ever so slightly harder than that
8" Thrashers: Are the loudest, most efficient speakers we make.
The Thrasher, if anyone was curious, has been designed to sound kindof like a gigantic Orca Deluxe. Thrashers can also be paired with a sub(s) below 40-50hz to some benefit. The Orca Deluxe still is king of its own kind of refinement, of course. But for people wanting to also be able to really crank it off of either high or low wattage, the Thrasher should be strongly considered.
However, please too understand that if 95+% of your listening is within low to medium volume levels, (and that when cranked up, cranked gently), that the Orca Deluxe or Orca Mini have been designed specifically for that 95% of listening levels that we find the majority of people actually doing out there. And because the Orcas are tuned for this uncommonly considered, but commonly experienced low volume performance (literally, the "silent majority" of music listeners), then the Orcas are therefore slightly superior speakers to the Thrashers within those volume ranges. Horses for courses.
Also, the Deluxes and Mini's, being so physically small in footprint, are better at portraying an accurate soundstage at lower volumes than typical speakers are capable of, and do also have the more ideal impulse response, dispersion, imaging traits than a larger speaker which are important at any volume level.
Its also important to understand that the Mini's and Deluxes can probably be pushed much harder and remain much cleaner than one might think, given an optimized audio system and associated subwoofer(s). Even compared to the Thrashers, the Mini's and Deluxes are respectably loud. Not your typical wimpy little 3" design in. the. slightest. I still find myself caught by surprise at the high volume performance of the Deluxes and Mini's when carefully driven and warmed up during a long listening session.
The first audible difference that people tend to pick up on (in my showroom) between the Mini and Deluxe when used without a subwoofer is the bass rolloff point, which is 10 hz higher for the Mini.
However, with a subwoofer, this difference in bass response between the Mini and Deluxe is significantly less apparent. The Deluxes use a little less of the sub, and so too the Deluxes seem to handle just a little bit less power than the Mini's (because the Deluxe cone is being asked to go lower, and it is also of a more delicate construction than the Mini cone). The Mini's is having more of its bass response supported by the subwoofer, and therefore can "lean" on the power of the subwoofer a little more and gain slightly extra upper volume capability than the Deluxe in that way as well.
The Mini's also have a slightly beefier voice coil and slightly stiffer cone suspension that can take a few more watts. The magnet is also slightly more powerful. The middle of the midrange is almost pancake flat, which lends the speaker very well to multimedia and monitoring of difficult music in the closest nearfield.
However, understand that the unconventional delicacy in cone material and cone suspension is key to the Deluxe's openness and dynamics, juxtaposed with their extreme delicacy and transparency at low to medium and slightly high volumes. The Deluxes also have a little more mid bass. which is a warmer "creamier" and more classic audio sound. The Mini's are a little bit more of a crisper, "modern" neutral sound.
Yet all of these differences are both important and slight!
Why?
In college, I was a music history major who wrote a thesis on the development of early keyboard instruments in conjunction with unequal temperaments. This involved the evolution of harmonic scale, bigger dynamics being written into the scores by composers, bigger dynamics needing to be played by the instruments, and so forth until primary musical instrument design (piano/violin) slowed down and piano production became more antique and nostalgic and less innovation (alot like most "blah" speaker designs out there these days).
But there is still hope. For instance, there are still some small modern piano makers of all sorts out there...way smaller than Steinway. For instance, some of them like Fazioli are pushing design boundaries. There are other, even smaller makers who are really pushing physics and materials science. These makers are huge influences on me as a designer. It takes immense courage to push innovation within classic, campy design or scientific communities. The many varied stories of success and solution fascinate me.
Since college, I am an avid consumer of modern music and media as well. Relating this music research background to the audio realm, I am not entirely unqualified for the task of having created this lineup of speakers that # 1 works with the actual music and media that is out there, and #2 are ergonomic in design for both the ear and living space, just as musical instruments should sound and feel good.
In short, as music changes, so do the instruments of its play. Which is the real reason behind your choice between a more historically leaning "classic" sound (Deluxe/Thrasher) or a more futuristic "modern" sound (Mini) within our product line.
I hope all that explaination helps!
Cheers,
Clark
P.S. subs in another post!
We know that most listeners out there know themselves well enough to prefer either a warmer and more liquid sound, or a slightly leaner/simply neutral kind of presentation. Or they might need to play things very loud on occasion, but still need warm response all the time.
So we give people the choice between three different optimized single driver fullrange models that each have their own unique capabilities suited to different cultures of listening or different spots in the house, car, sailboat, camper, or outdoor awning, etc. that we have encountered over the years.
Each speaker model has additionally had its moving parts/cone suspension and frequency response tuned to match the average frequency response of the human ear within the volume range/intended use of each respective speaker model.
3" Orca Deluxes: Best at the lowest volumes up to carefully pushed high volumes.
3" Orca Mini's: Can be pushed ever so slightly harder than that
8" Thrashers: Are the loudest, most efficient speakers we make.
The Thrasher, if anyone was curious, has been designed to sound kindof like a gigantic Orca Deluxe. Thrashers can also be paired with a sub(s) below 40-50hz to some benefit. The Orca Deluxe still is king of its own kind of refinement, of course. But for people wanting to also be able to really crank it off of either high or low wattage, the Thrasher should be strongly considered.
However, please too understand that if 95+% of your listening is within low to medium volume levels, (and that when cranked up, cranked gently), that the Orca Deluxe or Orca Mini have been designed specifically for that 95% of listening levels that we find the majority of people actually doing out there. And because the Orcas are tuned for this uncommonly considered, but commonly experienced low volume performance (literally, the "silent majority" of music listeners), then the Orcas are therefore slightly superior speakers to the Thrashers within those volume ranges. Horses for courses.
Also, the Deluxes and Mini's, being so physically small in footprint, are better at portraying an accurate soundstage at lower volumes than typical speakers are capable of, and do also have the more ideal impulse response, dispersion, imaging traits than a larger speaker which are important at any volume level.
Its also important to understand that the Mini's and Deluxes can probably be pushed much harder and remain much cleaner than one might think, given an optimized audio system and associated subwoofer(s). Even compared to the Thrashers, the Mini's and Deluxes are respectably loud. Not your typical wimpy little 3" design in. the. slightest. I still find myself caught by surprise at the high volume performance of the Deluxes and Mini's when carefully driven and warmed up during a long listening session.
The first audible difference that people tend to pick up on (in my showroom) between the Mini and Deluxe when used without a subwoofer is the bass rolloff point, which is 10 hz higher for the Mini.
However, with a subwoofer, this difference in bass response between the Mini and Deluxe is significantly less apparent. The Deluxes use a little less of the sub, and so too the Deluxes seem to handle just a little bit less power than the Mini's (because the Deluxe cone is being asked to go lower, and it is also of a more delicate construction than the Mini cone). The Mini's is having more of its bass response supported by the subwoofer, and therefore can "lean" on the power of the subwoofer a little more and gain slightly extra upper volume capability than the Deluxe in that way as well.
The Mini's also have a slightly beefier voice coil and slightly stiffer cone suspension that can take a few more watts. The magnet is also slightly more powerful. The middle of the midrange is almost pancake flat, which lends the speaker very well to multimedia and monitoring of difficult music in the closest nearfield.
However, understand that the unconventional delicacy in cone material and cone suspension is key to the Deluxe's openness and dynamics, juxtaposed with their extreme delicacy and transparency at low to medium and slightly high volumes. The Deluxes also have a little more mid bass. which is a warmer "creamier" and more classic audio sound. The Mini's are a little bit more of a crisper, "modern" neutral sound.
Yet all of these differences are both important and slight!
Why?
In college, I was a music history major who wrote a thesis on the development of early keyboard instruments in conjunction with unequal temperaments. This involved the evolution of harmonic scale, bigger dynamics being written into the scores by composers, bigger dynamics needing to be played by the instruments, and so forth until primary musical instrument design (piano/violin) slowed down and piano production became more antique and nostalgic and less innovation (alot like most "blah" speaker designs out there these days).
But there is still hope. For instance, there are still some small modern piano makers of all sorts out there...way smaller than Steinway. For instance, some of them like Fazioli are pushing design boundaries. There are other, even smaller makers who are really pushing physics and materials science. These makers are huge influences on me as a designer. It takes immense courage to push innovation within classic, campy design or scientific communities. The many varied stories of success and solution fascinate me.
Since college, I am an avid consumer of modern music and media as well. Relating this music research background to the audio realm, I am not entirely unqualified for the task of having created this lineup of speakers that # 1 works with the actual music and media that is out there, and #2 are ergonomic in design for both the ear and living space, just as musical instruments should sound and feel good.
In short, as music changes, so do the instruments of its play. Which is the real reason behind your choice between a more historically leaning "classic" sound (Deluxe/Thrasher) or a more futuristic "modern" sound (Mini) within our product line.
I hope all that explaination helps!
Cheers,
Clark
P.S. subs in another post!
thdewitt
New member
Great post Clark. I enjoyed reading this very much. I personally own Orca Delux, Orca Mini, dungeness sub, and Mako Floorstanders so I like hearing how they fit together in the line up.
Also, my daughter loves the Orca Minis you signed for her birthday. She will enjoy them for many years. She has attended the Grammy Foundation camp for the last 2 years and hopes to be involved in music production so I think she will appreciate them more and more as time goes on.
Thanks
Tom DeWitt
Also, my daughter loves the Orca Minis you signed for her birthday. She will enjoy them for many years. She has attended the Grammy Foundation camp for the last 2 years and hopes to be involved in music production so I think she will appreciate them more and more as time goes on.
Thanks
Tom DeWitt
Awesome post Clark, thanks for sharing your reasoning behind the development of the various Blumenstein models. I like how the same technologies behind the Orcas can be scaled up to the Thrashers or down to the size of the Mini.
It also interesting how the cone material comes into play with various types of music/media during playback.
One of the reasons I got into headphones was discovering how each one has different signatures which benefited various genres of music. Some of my favorite headphones and speakers have been what I consider to be generalists, able to playback everything I throw at them with satisfying results. I've felt that the Orca's musical and gentle nature allow them to shine with the vast majority of music which I've fed them.
There's always room for more innovation so keep on experimenting.
It also interesting how the cone material comes into play with various types of music/media during playback.
One of the reasons I got into headphones was discovering how each one has different signatures which benefited various genres of music. Some of my favorite headphones and speakers have been what I consider to be generalists, able to playback everything I throw at them with satisfying results. I've felt that the Orca's musical and gentle nature allow them to shine with the vast majority of music which I've fed them.
There's always room for more innovation so keep on experimenting.
caffeinator
New member
And Thrashers are reasonably beer-proof...or at least beer-resistant...don't ask me how I know...
Clark B.
New member
We've made some major changes to our designs at Blumenstein Audio in honor of our 10th year building speakers, cables, and audio accessories.
The link below is a discussion about our new approach to speaker, accessory and cable building. We also discuss the historic models that came prior.
In the shop, we have caught everyone on the order board up to the new designs, and have been shipping them out safer than before with upgraded packaging materials. Happy holidays!
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/historic-models/
-Clark
The link below is a discussion about our new approach to speaker, accessory and cable building. We also discuss the historic models that came prior.
In the shop, we have caught everyone on the order board up to the new designs, and have been shipping them out safer than before with upgraded packaging materials. Happy holidays!
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/historic-models/
-Clark
Natural Sound
New member
I really like the new sub amplifier with the plate amp mounted on the rear of the module. I'm wondering if a stack consisting of an amp (bottom), Benthic (middle) and Orca (top) would put the Orca speaker at the same height as when using a stand. Thereby eliminating the need for a stand.
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/all-products/dayton-outboard-subwoofer-amplifier
EDIT to add url.
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/all-products/dayton-outboard-subwoofer-amplifier
EDIT to add url.
It would be interesting to have an active variant of the Orca/Marlin that also uses a Hypex plate amps. Then you could have an option of a fully powerd speaker system from Blumenstein.
I use a NAD D3020 with my Orcas and really like what I'm hearing from this little Class D amp.
Makes for a nice contrast to the rather inefficient class A tube amps I also enjoy.
I use a NAD D3020 with my Orcas and really like what I'm hearing from this little Class D amp.
Makes for a nice contrast to the rather inefficient class A tube amps I also enjoy.
Clark B.
New member
Hey guys, thanks for the thread bump!
Thomas, you've inspired me to write a blog post about this topic! The NAD 3020 is great, as are some other Class D amps. I'm still very pleased with the Bottlehead 300B Paramount SET amps I use in my reference system. I also use cheap Class AB solid state in other systems, like in the woodshop.
Mainly, I would never want to limit my own choices in my own amplifier library down to just one design, though I have a few in my collection that I could really live with and enjoy - and these employ a variety of technologies. I am probably similar to many audiophiles in this regard.
I am not sure if I will ever make amplifiers, because that is a difficult task for an expert to handle. Just like speaker design is often best left handled to other experts.
Oh - and the stack of outboard Amp, Benthic, and Orca, Marlin, or Triton sitting on top is a very listenable arrangement, at between about a 24 inch high platform, depending upon the use of a component plinth below this stack.
We have been listening to these and have shipped out some of these benthic towers with Tritons and Orcas so far, with very positive feedback coming in about the sound of this new dual mono Benthic Bass Unit/ Dual Mono Outboard Subwoofer Amplifier speaker stand system. Each individual component in the stack is vibration isolated from the room and one another via our new low durometer (super soft) urethane feet (appropriated from exposure to urethane technologies in the skateboarding industry.) The whole tower can sway slightly, but it all sticks together and self recovers because of the feet. When its all stacked up, and you touch it, and knock on each cabinet, it is a very cool effect to see the cumulative component isolation going on.
Furthermore, if you employ one of our Seamount component plinths underneath each Benthic/Outboard tower, then the transmission of unwanted vibrations into the room is further reduced. Important cable lengths like the Anchor Chains are kept short as well.
One more extreme, but very good sounding example of an arrangement - and slightly taller stand option is to use two Benthic Bass units per side, and all of that driven by a single outboard subwoofer amplifier located close to the stereo amplifier. The subwoofer stacks are then hooked up with with one of our new, cleanly wired Octopus Cabling harnesses. We like this arrangement alot, as it is very easy to tune to a room, works with a huge variety of loudspeakers as stand/subwoofers, as the summing to mono for the bass can sometimes help compensate for room anomalies like asymmetrical rooms that typically result in asymmetrical bass response at the listening area.
-Clark
Thomas, you've inspired me to write a blog post about this topic! The NAD 3020 is great, as are some other Class D amps. I'm still very pleased with the Bottlehead 300B Paramount SET amps I use in my reference system. I also use cheap Class AB solid state in other systems, like in the woodshop.
Mainly, I would never want to limit my own choices in my own amplifier library down to just one design, though I have a few in my collection that I could really live with and enjoy - and these employ a variety of technologies. I am probably similar to many audiophiles in this regard.
I am not sure if I will ever make amplifiers, because that is a difficult task for an expert to handle. Just like speaker design is often best left handled to other experts.
Oh - and the stack of outboard Amp, Benthic, and Orca, Marlin, or Triton sitting on top is a very listenable arrangement, at between about a 24 inch high platform, depending upon the use of a component plinth below this stack.
We have been listening to these and have shipped out some of these benthic towers with Tritons and Orcas so far, with very positive feedback coming in about the sound of this new dual mono Benthic Bass Unit/ Dual Mono Outboard Subwoofer Amplifier speaker stand system. Each individual component in the stack is vibration isolated from the room and one another via our new low durometer (super soft) urethane feet (appropriated from exposure to urethane technologies in the skateboarding industry.) The whole tower can sway slightly, but it all sticks together and self recovers because of the feet. When its all stacked up, and you touch it, and knock on each cabinet, it is a very cool effect to see the cumulative component isolation going on.
Furthermore, if you employ one of our Seamount component plinths underneath each Benthic/Outboard tower, then the transmission of unwanted vibrations into the room is further reduced. Important cable lengths like the Anchor Chains are kept short as well.
One more extreme, but very good sounding example of an arrangement - and slightly taller stand option is to use two Benthic Bass units per side, and all of that driven by a single outboard subwoofer amplifier located close to the stereo amplifier. The subwoofer stacks are then hooked up with with one of our new, cleanly wired Octopus Cabling harnesses. We like this arrangement alot, as it is very easy to tune to a room, works with a huge variety of loudspeakers as stand/subwoofers, as the summing to mono for the bass can sometimes help compensate for room anomalies like asymmetrical rooms that typically result in asymmetrical bass response at the listening area.
-Clark
Clark B.
New member
Hi Folks! I have another quick announcement!
We are about to release a few exciting new audio products and photos in our webstore as our expanded shop has begun to keep pace with our order board for the new design platform that we have been rolling out this year.
The website is always lagging a little behind the needs of the woodshop. So the photo rollout of our new design platform has been necessarily gradual to give space to the clients actually getting these first new systems shipping under the 2016 design platform designation (with wood branded fronts).
Most recently released (this week) were the Hammerhead Binding Posts, which can be fitted to any prior generation Blumenstein speaker for an improvement to the sound. They are also applicable to DIY audio projects of many sorts as well. And right now, as an introductory price, a whole set of these new Hammerhead Binding Posts will run you only $36. Did I mention that we use the same wire and solder as is now used in the Main sheet cables? Because its what's on the inside that counts.
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/all-products/hammerhead-binding-post-red
In the previous post, I discussed the benefits of passive subwoofers, and how we no longer wished to produce them. So - as an available upgrade for the majority of our previous subwoofer clients, you are now able to turn your previous generation active Dungeness subwoofer (should you desire) into a passive subwoofer by removing the subwoofer amplifier, hammering in a set of these binding posts into 1/4 inch holes you can drill into wall of the sealed internal amplifier cavity, and then just connect the new lead wires to the existing (typically nicely broken in) subwoofer driver you've got, and then run that modified passive subwoofer with one of our newer, more powerful Outboard Subwoofer Amplifiers - for just a few hundred bucks in total cost for the sonic/convenience upgrade. Later, if the funds become available to purchase a new Benthic Bass Unit to replace your modified-to-passive Dungeness, then you already own one of our new Outboard amps to use with it.
-Clark
We are about to release a few exciting new audio products and photos in our webstore as our expanded shop has begun to keep pace with our order board for the new design platform that we have been rolling out this year.
The website is always lagging a little behind the needs of the woodshop. So the photo rollout of our new design platform has been necessarily gradual to give space to the clients actually getting these first new systems shipping under the 2016 design platform designation (with wood branded fronts).
Most recently released (this week) were the Hammerhead Binding Posts, which can be fitted to any prior generation Blumenstein speaker for an improvement to the sound. They are also applicable to DIY audio projects of many sorts as well. And right now, as an introductory price, a whole set of these new Hammerhead Binding Posts will run you only $36. Did I mention that we use the same wire and solder as is now used in the Main sheet cables? Because its what's on the inside that counts.
http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/all-products/hammerhead-binding-post-red
In the previous post, I discussed the benefits of passive subwoofers, and how we no longer wished to produce them. So - as an available upgrade for the majority of our previous subwoofer clients, you are now able to turn your previous generation active Dungeness subwoofer (should you desire) into a passive subwoofer by removing the subwoofer amplifier, hammering in a set of these binding posts into 1/4 inch holes you can drill into wall of the sealed internal amplifier cavity, and then just connect the new lead wires to the existing (typically nicely broken in) subwoofer driver you've got, and then run that modified passive subwoofer with one of our newer, more powerful Outboard Subwoofer Amplifiers - for just a few hundred bucks in total cost for the sonic/convenience upgrade. Later, if the funds become available to purchase a new Benthic Bass Unit to replace your modified-to-passive Dungeness, then you already own one of our new Outboard amps to use with it.
-Clark
Attachments
Does anyone here (besides Clark) own a pair of Thrashers/Tritons? I'll be getting a pair and trying to decide if I should use my SEX 2.1 or Stereomour to drive them. I like the added ability for headphones with the SEX but understand the Stereomour will likely offer better detail and bass.
