Tube Rolling w/Crack

[orri]

Laudanum...I live in Iceland where we have only one tube dealer (you can laugh now). So that, along with high custom and shipping fees explains the price. The dealer also has the ECC802-JJ JJ/ECC802/ A12AU7 GOLD PIN you mentioned at 41$.

How would you compare the sound of these tubes I mentioned compared to the stock ones? I'm curious since installing the speedball I find the Crack a bit too bright and I'm looking for a tube that could reduce the brightness a bit...

 

[ffivaz]

Laudanum, I said NOS, but it was maybe used

Orri, I read somewhere (can't remember) that the JJ was a quite bright sounding tube. But I may be mistaken.

 

[Paul Birkeland]

The RTC is probably worth a shot, I wouldn't pay $5 for the JJ (unless it's more than 5 years old).

-PB

 

[Laudanum]

Orri ...  I agree with Paul, for that type money I'd rather take a chance on the RTC but I dont have any to give you feedback on.    The JJ's I own are all from atleast 10 years ago.  I have heard of problems with the newer production JJ's.   

I may have missed it but I dont know what stock 12AU7 tube was included with your Crack kit.  If I were looking for a warmer sound and tube options were limited I may be inclined to focus on the output tube.  The RCA 6AS7 tends to have a bigger bottom and isnt what I would consider bright up top (or overly detailed either for that matter).  I always seem to be mentioning these tubes and I know some members complain of the bass being too fat or loose.  But it may warm things up and balance out the sound to better suit your tastes.  I'm not really biased in terms of this tube, I actually dont run it normally.  I normally am listening to a 5998.    Personally, Im not all that enthralled by the Russian 6H13C's.  I find the treble a bit brittle/harsh/hard.  But systems, headphones and ears all make a world of difference so YMMV.  There are some 12AU7's and subsititutes that I find a bit less bright.  Some of the RCA's (NOT the clear tops).  I have a couple nice sounding GE 6189's and also some of the Holland made Amperex tubes.  I got good deals on all of these, great deals on the Amperex (and some Philips and rebrands).  All bought on ebay which may be your best option based on your geography.  I have a bunch of 12AU7's and variants but I dont have any uber expensive tubes so those I mention are based only on the tubes that I have and on my mortal ears and my limited audio vocabulary. 

 

[danosol]

I have a question.  I'm currently running a 12BH7 and a 6AS7 tube setup in my Crack.  Even though the Speedball will allow the 12BH7 without mods,  will the 12BH7 have any adverse effects on the 6AS7, such as tube life?

 

[blstrek]

So far I've run;

6080-Mullard and RCA
5998-Tung-Sol
7236-Cetron
6AS7G-GE, Raytheon, RCA

12AU7-Mullard, Telefunken ribbed plate, Raytheon black plate, RCA Cleartop
12BH7-RCA black plate, Sylvania Grey Plate, Sylvania Curved Black Plate
6085 (ECC80) -Amperex "PQ"

Input tubes;

1) 12BH7 Sylvania Curved black plate-Amazing tube!

2) 12BH7 RCA black plate-Also a great tube, just a little on the dark side.

3) The Amperex was extremely nice, very sharp imagery, yet smooth highs. Unfortunately, it died on me. Became very microphonic then lost a channel. Until then, it was vying for the top of the list. Oh, well.

Of the AU types the Telefunken is best, IMO. Little shy in the bass, but a great sounding tube. I also like the sound of the Mullard which is more full on the bottom but not quite as detailed.

But, I think I'm sticking with the taller BH type tubes. It's a more dynamic sound.

Power tubes;
1) Hands down the big RCA with the black plates. I like the 6AS7G tubes over the others else overall, it's just a great sounding design.

2) The Raytheon is also black plate and the sound is very close to the RCA.

3) Following at a close third is the TS 5998. Very nice, smooth tube, especially with Classical and Jazz.

4) The 6080s were alright, with the Mullard having a darker but more full bodied sound than the RCA.

5) The 7236 I don't care for at all. Sharp imagery, very quiet backround, but way too bright for my ears. Almost as fatiguing as solid state.

So, far the best combination is the RCA 6AS7G Black Plate driven by the Sylvania 12BH7 Curved Black Plate. Deep, tight, powerful bass and amazing imagery. Like having the band in your head.  Cymbals just totally shimmer.

Dave

 

[Paul Birkeland]

I have a question.  I'm currently running a 12BH7 and a 6AS7 tube setup in my Crack.  Even though the Speedball will allow the 12BH7 without mods,  will the 12BH7 have any adverse effects on the 6AS7, such as tube life?

The BH7 bumps the plate voltage of the driver stage down a little bit, which in turn also bumps the cathode voltage of the 6080 down a tad too.

The 6080 is run fairly lightly, so having more plate to cathode voltage with the same current will mean more dissipation, but still way below the threshold of doing any harm. 

I would mention, however, that there will be a decrease in heat generated by the TIP50C, and this may not be such a bad thing (though the heat through the MJE350's will go up a hair at the same time).

-PB

 

[danosol]

Dave

I'm running the same setup except I'm using the RCA 6AS7G with an RCA 12BH7.  Not a lot of time logged in yet, but I find this combination helps with the slight fogginess I get with the 6AS7G and really tightens things up without loosing that toobey goodness.

 

[blstrek]

I have one of those with black plates layin' around here somewhere. Have to give it a try. I know it was very good with the 5998 and the GE 6AS7. The RCA has much longer plates, IIRC.

Dave

 

[Nubtam94]

So far I've run;

6080-Mullard and RCA
5998-Tung-Sol
7236-Cetron
6AS7G-GE, Raytheon, RCA

12AU7-Mullard, Telefunken ribbed plate, Raytheon black plate, RCA Cleartop
12BH7-RCA black plate, Sylvania Grey Plate, Sylvania Curved Black Plate
6085 (ECC80) -Amperex "PQ"

Input tubes;

1) 12BH7 Sylvania Curved black plate-Amazing tube!

2) 12BH7 RCA black plate-Also a great tube, just a little on the dark side.

3) The Amperex was extremely nice, very sharp imagery, yet smooth highs. Unfortunately, it died on me. Became very microphonic then lost a channel. Until then, it was vying for the top of the list. Oh, well.

Of the AU types the Telefunken is best, IMO. Little shy in the bass, but a great sounding tube. I also like the sound of the Mullard which is more full on the bottom but not quite as detailed.

But, I think I'm sticking with the taller BH type tubes. It's a more dynamic sound.

Power tubes;
1) Hands down the big RCA with the black plates. I like the 6AS7G tubes over the others else overall, it's just a great sounding design.

2) The Raytheon is also black plate and the sound is very close to the RCA.

3) Following at a close third is the TS 5998. Very nice, smooth tube, especially with Classical and Jazz.

4) The 6080s were alright, with the Mullard having a darker but more full bodied sound than the RCA.

5) The 7236 I don't care for at all. Sharp imagery, very quiet backround, but way too bright for my ears. Almost as fatiguing as solid state.

So, far the best combination is the RCA 6AS7G Black Plate driven by the Sylvania 12BH7 Curved Black Plate. Deep, tight, powerful bass and amazing imagery. Like having the band in your head.  Cymbals just totally shimmer.

Dave

I've pretty much got the same 12BH7 and E80CC 6085 tubes you have there. been there, tried it, liked it, but then i discovered the 6SN7 lol

 

[RGartner]

So far I've run;

6080-Mullard and RCA
5998-Tung-Sol
7236-Cetron
6AS7G-GE, Raytheon, RCA

12AU7-Mullard, Telefunken ribbed plate, Raytheon black plate, RCA Cleartop
12BH7-RCA black plate, Sylvania Grey Plate, Sylvania Curved Black Plate
6085 (ECC80) -Amperex "PQ"

Input tubes;

1) 12BH7 Sylvania Curved black plate-Amazing tube!

2) 12BH7 RCA black plate-Also a great tube, just a little on the dark side.

3) The Amperex was extremely nice, very sharp imagery, yet smooth highs. Unfortunately, it died on me. Became very microphonic then lost a channel. Until then, it was vying for the top of the list. Oh, well.

Of the AU types the Telefunken is best, IMO. Little shy in the bass, but a great sounding tube. I also like the sound of the Mullard which is more full on the bottom but not quite as detailed.

But, I think I'm sticking with the taller BH type tubes. It's a more dynamic sound.

Power tubes;
1) Hands down the big RCA with the black plates. I like the 6AS7G tubes over the others else overall, it's just a great sounding design.

2) The Raytheon is also black plate and the sound is very close to the RCA.

3) Following at a close third is the TS 5998. Very nice, smooth tube, especially with Classical and Jazz.

4) The 6080s were alright, with the Mullard having a darker but more full bodied sound than the RCA.

5) The 7236 I don't care for at all. Sharp imagery, very quiet backround, but way too bright for my ears. Almost as fatiguing as solid state.

So, far the best combination is the RCA 6AS7G Black Plate driven by the Sylvania 12BH7 Curved Black Plate. Deep, tight, powerful bass and amazing imagery. Like having the band in your head.  Cymbals just totally shimmer.

Dave

When you are speaking about these tubes "RCA 6AS7G Black Plate driven by the Sylvania 12BH7 Curved Black Plate" are these compatible with the Crack without the speedball? I just completed the kit and while it sounds great I've been trying to get up to speed on all the tube rolling. Thanks for any info.

 

[Nubtam94]

So far I've run;

6080-Mullard and RCA
5998-Tung-Sol
7236-Cetron
6AS7G-GE, Raytheon, RCA

12AU7-Mullard, Telefunken ribbed plate, Raytheon black plate, RCA Cleartop
12BH7-RCA black plate, Sylvania Grey Plate, Sylvania Curved Black Plate
6085 (ECC80) -Amperex "PQ"

Input tubes;

1) 12BH7 Sylvania Curved black plate-Amazing tube!

2) 12BH7 RCA black plate-Also a great tube, just a little on the dark side.

3) The Amperex was extremely nice, very sharp imagery, yet smooth highs. Unfortunately, it died on me. Became very microphonic then lost a channel. Until then, it was vying for the top of the list. Oh, well.

Of the AU types the Telefunken is best, IMO. Little shy in the bass, but a great sounding tube. I also like the sound of the Mullard which is more full on the bottom but not quite as detailed.

But, I think I'm sticking with the taller BH type tubes. It's a more dynamic sound.

Power tubes;
1) Hands down the big RCA with the black plates. I like the 6AS7G tubes over the others else overall, it's just a great sounding design.

2) The Raytheon is also black plate and the sound is very close to the RCA.

3) Following at a close third is the TS 5998. Very nice, smooth tube, especially with Classical and Jazz.

4) The 6080s were alright, with the Mullard having a darker but more full bodied sound than the RCA.

5) The 7236 I don't care for at all. Sharp imagery, very quiet backround, but way too bright for my ears. Almost as fatiguing as solid state.

So, far the best combination is the RCA 6AS7G Black Plate driven by the Sylvania 12BH7 Curved Black Plate. Deep, tight, powerful bass and amazing imagery. Like having the band in your head.  Cymbals just totally shimmer.

Dave

When you are speaking about these tubes "RCA 6AS7G Black Plate driven by the Sylvania 12BH7 Curved Black Plate" are these compatible with the Crack without the speedball? I just completed the kit and while it sounds great I've been trying to get up to speed on all the tube rolling. Thanks for any info.

Yes but the results may or may not be optimal. but this has been discussed many times. The 12BH7 draws more current but is within the design limits of the PT-3 transformer, Doc mentioned that it is fine, perhaps you should dig through the Crack forum, because the 12BH7 has been brought up quite alot

 

[RGartner]

Thanks for the help Nick. I ordered a Mullard CV4003 from upscale audio. Ill start there, looking around for a Mullard 6080 to try as well. Ill get to the Speedball upgrade after I have some time messing around with the basic configuration. This is the first time I have listened to a tube amp,  it sounds awesome, just fun to play around with different sounds now.

 

[Paul Birkeland]

The 12BH7 will function in the Crack circuit, though at a lower plate voltage than originally targeted.  This will lead to lower cathode voltages and a slightly different operating point on the 6080, but nothing that will lead to the destruction of the amplifier.  (It may actually run cooler with with 12BH7)

-PB

 

[RGartner]

Good info, thanks for that. I went with Mullard CV4003 and  Rca 6as7g 1951, just messing around for now. I think Ill probably grab the speedball here pretty soon and try out some other combos, gets addicting messing around with this amp

-r

 

[blstrek]

I've pretty much got the same 12BH7 and E80CC 6085 tubes you have there. been there, tried it, liked it, but then i discovered the 6SN7 lol
[/quote]

I have a pile of 6SN7s and an adapter on the way.

Dave

 

[blstrek]

When you are speaking about these tubes "RCA 6AS7G Black Plate driven by the Sylvania 12BH7 Curved Black Plate" are these compatible with the Crack without the speedball? I just completed the kit and while it sounds great I've been trying to get up to speed on all the tube rolling. Thanks for any info.
[/quote]

The 6AS7G is compatible with non-Speedball Crack. The 12BH you should run with Speedball, IMO.

Dave

 

[drowningcactis]

would a 6sn7 tube work in place of the 12au7 with an adapter? ive been reading they sound better than 12au7. i don't see why it wouldn't work but I haven't seen anyone do it with crack yet. is there a reason for that? I really want to try a tung sol 6sn7gtb.

 

[Paul Birkeland]

would a 6sn7 tube work in place of the 12au7 with an adapter? ive been reading they sound better than 12au7. i don't see why it wouldn't work but I haven't seen anyone do it with crack yet. is there a reason for that? I really want to try a tung sol 6sn7gtb.

Yes, there is a thread titled "tube adapters" regarding using these.

Tube Adapters

 

[drowningcactis]

I feel dumb because I didn't even read the post above mine lol the irony. ordering a couple 6sn7s right now