Tube Rolling w/Crack

[Laudanum]

I thought that the 6189 was basically a ruggedized 12AU7 ... a drop-in sub with, maybe, slightly different specs.  I have a few and I think most are JAN or JG tubes and/or have triple mica spacers.  I dont know how that relates to the ECC82.  I thought that the ECC82 was just the Euro designation for and equivalent of 12AU7.    But Im not a tube historian or even a tube buff.

Have you tried any of the "lowly" GE's?  Either the 12AU7's or the variants (6189, 5814).  Ive been largely disenchanted with the relatively small number of different GE tube types Ive tried in general but some of the GE 12AU7's and drop in subs I really like in Crack.  I dont think they would be your favorites based on what I think your sonic preferences are but just curious if you have tried any.  I have a couple 12AU7's (1950's I think)  and, I believe a couple GE BP 5814's that are really great.  They are right there with my favorites which are the Herleen made tubes.  I have 2 or 3 Amperex relabels and a couple tubes that I bought with no silk screen brand labels that were sold as Philips - Herleen tubes.  I believe they are labeled ECC82 (Herleen Delta code prefix is present).  I dont know exactly what they are but all of the relatively few Hollan made tubes that I have are among my favorites along with a few of those GE's I mention.  Im not a tube snob at all but it still surprises me that I am fond of these GE's because of my not being impressed with the brand in other gear in the past. 

All that said, Im still running and enjoying the 12BH7.

 

[Laudanum]

I want to let people understand that I'm not analytical about my observations. In the past I would listen to the same tracks over and over to determine what I thought sounded better.  Now I want to see if I'm just enjoying the music. Maybe after 30 years of listening to the equipment I'm actually listening to the music.

That's the only way I choose tubes these days.  I'll do some pretty quick rolling at first to try and get a sense of the different tubes.  But after that, I just listen.  I dont listen for anything, I just listen to the music and the tube kinda chooses itself.

 

[Paul Joppa]

I find data sheets on the web for 6189s by Philips, Mazda, Lorenz (=e82cc), Tung-Sol, and Telefunken (=ecc802s). Ruggedized (shock and vibration) and specified for many turn on/turn off cycles, but otherwise the same as a 12AU7.

 

[nick-seattle]

I thought that the 6189 was basically a ruggedized 12AU7 ... a drop-in sub with, maybe, slightly different specs.  I have a few and I think most are JAN or JG tubes and/or have triple mica spacers.  I dont know how that relates to the ECC82.  I thought that the ECC82 was just the Euro designation for and equivalent of 12AU7.    But Im not a tube historian or even a tube buff.

Have you tried any of the "lowly" GE's?  Either the 12AU7's or the variants (6189, 5814).   Ive been largely disenchanted with the relatively small number of different GE tube types Ive tried in general but some of the GE 12AU7's and drop in subs I really like in Crack.   I dont think they would be your favorites based on what I think your sonic preferences are but just curious if you have tried any.  I have a couple 12AU7's (1950's I think)  and, I believe a couple GE BP 5814's that are really great.   They are right there with my favorites which are the Herleen made tubes.  I have 2 or 3 Amperex relabels and a couple tubes that I bought with no silk screen brand labels that were sold as Philips - Herleen tubes.  I believe they are labeled ECC82 (Herleen Delta code prefix is present).  I dont know exactly what they are but all of the relatively few Hollan made tubes that I have are among my favorites along with a few of those GE's I mention.   Im not a tube snob at all but it still surprises me that I am fond of these GE's because of my not being impressed with the brand in other gear in the past.   

All that said, Im still running and enjoying the 12BH7.

I tried about every conceivable variation on GE theme. I do like GE 5814 BP 3 mica. They sound very similar (practically the same) as RCA 5814 3 mica at a huge discount. Gray plates, definitely not my favorite - I find their sound sharp at the top, can't listen for long. GE 12au7 Gray Long Plates are not bad, but still the sharpness for me is there.

About 12BH7, a lot of people love the tubes, but I just can't stand them, they sound very glassy to me I sold every single one I had.

About 6189, I think it's like 5814 in relationship to 12au7 - the specs are the same, but more care and QA goes into selection of the tubes, so the final result is better. this is just my thought.

 

[Dr. Toobz]

Never to be one to leave well enough alone, I re-wired the noval socket to suit a handful of near-NOS 6CG7's I won on eBay for rather cheap. Since the black wire that was already there wasn't quite long enough to reach pin 4, I re-did the heater wiring with some Belden shielded cable, and took pin 9 (shield) to the chassis ground. The result? I have a new favorite. Great soundstage, warm mids, and really sweet HF that reminds me of my SEX amp. This makes sense, as the small triode on the 6DN7 is essentially half of a 6SN7, and the 6CG7 is just a 6SN7 in a different-sized bottle.

I was afraid these might sound more "tubey" than the 12BH7 or RCA clear-top 12AU7 I had been using lately, but that's not been the case. The three RCA tubes I acquired look to be from the 1950's or very early 1960's, before the "meatball" logo disappeared. The have huge, dark-colored plates and there is a shield between sections, which was taken to ground. My understanding is that the shields were added due to the sections being shoved so close together compared to the octal 6SN7, increasing the chances of crosstalk between channels.

I also stuck a 6922EH in there for kicks, since the operating point seems similar to that of the Seduction (e.g., Agilent HLMP-6000 LED bias (~1.56V) and about 75V on the plates). The sound was definitely more clinical and "modern," in addition to a smaller soundstage than the aforementioned 6CG7. Not a fan. I've found this to be the case anytime a higher-mu tube is added, such as the E80cc. The extra gain makes for a more forward (and I'd argue, fatiguing) presentation.

 

[nick-seattle]

Well... reporting back on the E80CC I have one from Tungsram. A fantastic tube - there were reports that it's better than short plate 7316 by Amperex and I have to agree. It's not better than the long plate version, but it's not worst - it's just very different. Compared to short plate version, it's a more capable tube - you can feel that it can carry music with such an incredible authority and ease. Very balance sound. Powerful bass, great amount of details, very good separation of instruments. All is there. If you like dynamic sound with huge transparency, try it out, it's definitely worth it.

However, I've been completely distracted by the other shipment that I got recently - Tesla E83CC the replica of Telefunkens ECC803S. When I put it into my Crack (I have a version that takes 12ax7) and started to play my jaw dropped. This was completely unbelievable - there is no talk about transparency, details, etc. The tube brings the music, the singer, the band right into your house! I later tried it in McIntosh and I couldn't believe that my amp and speakers could produce this kind of sound. I'm completely blown away. Now I must try other S versions. My poor budget.

 

[BNAL]

I've found a very nice sounding combination for my Crack in e RCA 12au7 clear top and RCA 6AS7G black plate. I tried the clear top with other power tubes and was not as engaged. This is a clear bag for
the buck combination. Both tubes can be had for a reasonable price and provide a dinamic clean detailed sound.

 

[dwilli852]

I agree with BNAL the clear top and black plate is a very good combination. One I keep going back too.

Has anyone ever seen a NOS Mullard made in America 6AS7G or this just a rebranded RCA tube? It's a bottom D getter.

 

[Laudanum]

I've got a bunch of the RCA Clear Top 12AU7's .  Not my favorites with Crack.  Not bad with the RCA or GE JAN labeled 6AS7 but definitely too much with the 5998.  Not my preference either way.  But I have one or two in use in the main systems.   But I find the Cleartops a little too hot up top in the heaphone system.  It could be the Beyerdynamics.  That said, I agree that they are nice tubes in the right system and a real good bang for the buck tube.  

 

[nick-seattle]

I've got a bunch of the RCA Clear Top 12AU7's .  Not my favorites with Crack.  Not bad with the RCA or GE JAN labeled 6AS7 but definitely too much with the 5998.  Not my preference either way.  But I have one or two in use in the main systems.   But I find the Cleartops a little too hot up top in the heaphone system.  It could be the Beyerdynamics.  That said, I agree that they are nice tubes in the right system and a real good bang for the buck tube.  

I agree. Clear Top compensates for early roll off in HF of RCA, so the combo is great, but with 5998, which already has great HF extension Cleat tops are just too much. 5998 asks for a much more balanced tube. The best combo that I found was with Amperes, either short or long plates. Mulllards are way too dark. ECC803S is phenomenal, but requires mods. E80CC or Raytheon 5814 Windmill is the middle ground and with 5998 provides incredible sound if you area looking for Dynamics. If you are into warmth, Westinghouse or RCA will give you that. If you are into feeling of presence- outside of Tele ECC803S (which cost like my first car) nothing compares to Mazda.

 

[dwilli852]

I agree with BNAL the clear top and black plate is a very good combination. One I keep going back too.

Has anyone ever seen a NOS Mullard made in America 6AS7G or this just a rebranded RCA tube? It's a bottom D getter.

Got this tube today. It's a strange one but sounds great. The box has Mullard and BVA (British Valve Assocation) on the end with Mullard made in USA on the tube base. I can't find anything on USA made Mullards. I know the Mullard name has been sold a couple times to IEC and another US company who currently owns it.

It doesn't look like any RCA's I've seen, more like a Tung Sol 5998 with the bottom D getters or WE 421a. Guess it really doesn't matter as long as it sounds good. It's a little cleaner than the RCA Black Plates with a brighter top end.

 

[Laudanum]

I agree with BNAL the clear top and black plate is a very good combination. One I keep going back too.

Has anyone ever seen a NOS Mullard made in America 6AS7G or this just a rebranded RCA tube? It's a bottom D getter.

Got this tube today. It's a strange one but sounds great. The box has Mullard and BVA (British Valve Assocation) on the end with Mullard made in USA on the tube base. I can't find anything on USA made Mullards. I know the Mullard name has been sold a couple times to IEC and another US company who currently owns it.

It doesn't look like any RCA's I've seen, more like a Tung Sol 5998 with the bottom D getters or WE 421a. Guess it really doesn't matter as long as it sounds good. It's a little cleaner than the RCA Black Plates with a brighter top end.

Can you post a pic?  I have a few 6AS7's I could compare with. 

 

[dwilli852]

I'll try and get some pics of the Mullard made in USA 6AS7G up. In the mean time got a couple of NOS Tung Sol 5814a's. The box has a packaged date of 04/57. Another good sounding tube. At a fraction of the price of the Mullards, Bugle Boys, Valvo, Siemens......

 

[nick-seattle]

I'll try and get some pics of the Mullard made in USA 6AS7G up. In the mean time got a couple of NOS Tung Sol 5814a's. The box has a packaged date of 04/57. Another good sounding tube. At a fraction of the price of the Mullards, Bugle Boys, Valvo, Siemens......

Tung-sol 5814 as well as 5751 are superb tubes and grossly undervalued. They have a superbly liquid sound!

 

[dwilli852]

Here's a pic of the tube.

 

[Laudanum]

Here's a pic of the tube.

Looks like a GE ... maybe.  I'll dig my 6AS7's out and look but first thought was GE.  I think I have two, both smaller bottles than the RCA's.

I've linked an ebay listing with a photo of a GE.  Looks similiar from quick glance.  Is it a smaller bottle than your RCA 6AS7's, if you have any?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ONE-6AS7-G-GENERAL-ELECTRIC-TUBE-N-O-S-TESTED-/221043253392?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3377346090

 

[dwilli852]

Here's a pic of the tube.

Looks like a GE ... maybe.  I'll dig my 6AS7's out and look but first thought was GE.  I think I have two, both smaller bottles than the RCA's.

I've linked an ebay listing with a photo of a GE.  Looks similiar from quick glance.  Is it a smaller bottle than your RCA 6AS7's, if you have any?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ONE-6AS7-G-GENERAL-ELECTRIC-TUBE-N-O-S-TESTED-/221043253392?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3377346090

It's the same size as my RCA's. I compaired it to a Black Plate with a code date of 58-39.

It very well might be a GE tube. With all the rebranding and lack of information now days I might never know for sure.

It's still a fun hobby learning about the old tubes and searching for that great find.

Thanks for the help.

Here's a very close match

 

[Laudanum]

Got one that looks just like it.  It is labeled GE but could be RCA manufactured.  Same size as my RCA labeled tubes except for one which has thin copper skirts/shield at the bottom and is a little bit taller.  Bottle looks a little wider as well but it may be an illusion.  Anyway, they all sound good and all have slight internal variations.  Havent spent enough time with them all to listen for differences that may make some signifigantly better than others.

 

[nick-seattle]

Hmm. I discovered in my collection something that I didn't know exists Tung-sol 12au7 with Black Glass & Black Plates. So I compered the gray plates version with black plates - both black glass. I honestly like black plates more, could be just psychological It has more body and warmer sounding, but details remained the same! Very cool tube.

 

[jrihs]

Hmm. I discovered in my collection something that I didn't know exists Tung-sol 12au7 with Black Glass & Black Plates. So I compered the gray plates version with black plates - both black glass. I honestly like black plates more, could be just psychological It has more body and warmer sounding, but details remained the same! Very cool tube.

Ok, so I'm wondering how you know its a black plate if its black glass!  ???please post a pic!! 
gotta see this!