Tube Rolling w/Crack

The E80CC is a great tube IMO but they are rare and expensive now. I am actually going to try the 12BH7 route because of the price and availability now. Will be interesting to know how it will stack up against the E80CC. I also want to try the 6CG7 (apparently a 6SN7 equivalent) but socket rewiring is required which doesn't look too difficult. You may not need Speedball for a 6CG7 and socket rewire but PB would have to confirm that.
 
My ON MJE5731AG transistors arrived today and I swapped them out on the Speedball boards so that I could use the 12BH7A safely. I have 470 ohm resistors permanently installed on the boards so that I can run my favorite tube, the E80CC. To run the Matsushita 12BH7A, I soldered on 150ohm resistors in parallel to arrive at 113 ohms. T1 and T5 voltages ended up being 74.8/73.0.

The tube sounds outstanding with a Chatham 2399 power tube and my new HD-600. I need to compare it more to E80CC but right now sounds just as good. They are more affordable and available than E80CC so that is a plus.
 

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Paul Birkeland said:
E80CC in a stock Crack is close enough to try.  Changing the 22K resistors for 33K/1W would be a good idea if you're committed to the E80CC.
Click to expand...

Hi Paul, is this the only required change if i want to run an E800CC long term? TY.
 
Well, I'm 57 so it's not going too be to long. Hopefully 10 more years if I'm lucky. Ears are still amazingly in good shape for being in the mining industry my whole life.
 
OK, thanks! I want to give a good long listen to my Tung Sol NOS 12AU7's and those Nichicon coupling caps before I get too excited about doing anything. Could be a while but I will definitely use this info going forward. Appreciate it!
 
Howdy all.  New to Tube rolling with a Bottlehead Crack 1.1 w/SB.

To get a sense of "the extremes", what would be two VERY different sounding input tubes and two very different sounding power tubes I could try in the Crack to help develop my ear for tubes?

I guess I'd like to stay under about $25/tube for this experiment... but can go higher if there's a reasonable resale market for a particular suggestion. 
 
Hi tlite,

For about $25/tube, you'll have to do some searching or be patient on auction sites. People are really overcharging for tubes these days...

I think two very different-sounding input tubes would be: RCA 12AU7 clear top & Brimar CV4003

And two very different-sounding output tubes would be: any generic U.S.-made 6080 (like the ones usually included in the Crack kit) & any generic U.S.-made 6AS7G (RCA is the most common, and Sylvania, G.E., Raytheon are other budget options, these all seem to sound very close to one another.)

I've tried many, many tubes in the Crack+SB and I think what I suggested is a reasonable place to start. Once you're ready for the next step, getting a 6.3V 6SN7-to-12AU7 adapter with any U.S.-made 6SN7GT will tend to have a significant difference in sound to most 12AU7 types, and it's a well-regarded tube type in the audio world. Have fun and be sure to report back differences you hear with whatever tubes you end up buying. Cheers!



 
Hi all,

I'm new here, just finished my Crack (no Speedball) that came with GE 6AS7GA and RCA 12AU7 (not clear top).

My tube rolling experience so far:
  • Winged "C" 6H13C power tube: I like this much more than the stock GE tube. It has better staging, it sounds more 'open' with better imaging without being hollow or thin. In comparison, the GE tube is more 'congested'.
  • Genalex ECC82 Gold Lion preamp tube: all reviews praised this and it has a very clear, nimble, 'decent' sound but the bass amount is significantly lower and the overall warmth is gone. I prefer the stock RCA tube because it has a fuller, warmer, more engaging sound. I still keep the Genalex tube because classical music sounds awesome with it but the majority of the time I listen to the RCA.

Does anybody know if there is a difference between the RCA clear top and not-clear top?
 
RCA 12AU7 are usually the cheapest and among the best tubes for Crack. Unlike power tubes, here price does not normally correlate with quality. With power tubes 5889 and GEC are normally much better than stock
 
I’ve got a few RCA 12AU7 variants including a clear top, a grey plate, and a black plate 5963. They all sound great with my TS/Chatham 2399. The clear top is a little bright with my GE 6080, but good with the 2399 and 6AS7G. I think what I’m looking for changes from time to time. Sometimes a dark recording needs that little top end boost. The other day I plugged my Sennheiser HD600 directly into my NAD C740, which I can’t remember doing since building the Crack almost ten years ago because why would I, and was pleasantly surprised.
 
ipetruk said:
RCA 12AU7 are usually the cheapest and among the best tubes for Crack. Unlike power tubes, here price does not normally correlate with quality. With power tubes 5889 and GEC are normally much better than stock
Click to expand...

I can see RCA 12AU7 and RCA 12AU7A? Any significant difference between these?
 
No, the A suffix means it works properly in circuit with lots of tube heaters strung together in series.  This isn't something you're going to run into much in modern HiFi.
 
Good day. I have another question, can E80CC be used directly in Crack 1.1 without speed ball upgrade? I have speed ball kit but not yet implement. I am planning to enjoy Crack original version for a while, then only upgrade to speed ball version.

Thank you.
 
Hello everyone,
I performed some mods to my crack w/speedball which I can get into detail about later, but for now I just wanted to get some opinions on this because the mods aren't relevant to my question.
I swapped the 12AU7 to a Valvo 45 degree getter ECC82. The listing I bought was $68 and didn't contain a date of manufacture or testing information but I just wanted to spend as little money as possible to get a feel for this tube. I heard the ECC82 to aim for is the Valvo ECC82 Long Plate Foil D Getter 56' but they are $500≥ on ebay and I wasn't sure I was willing to drop that much on a tube.

I think the tube sounds great despite how much I paid for it. The bass has been improved significantly and the music feels closer or more present like I'm in between the sound. I guess if I'm getting really nitpicky, the treble sounds a little muddier but I will have to swap back and see. The only real issue is I hear a hiss that remains a static volume regardless of the volume knob position that is predominantly in the left channel. When I'm playing music, I obviously don't really notice it but I just wanted to hear if there is anything I can do about it or if I simply get what I pay for(I'm assuming the latter is true.)

I would leave a link to the listing here but I guess I'm not allowed. so if you really care to check out the listing yourself to see how much of a gamble it was:    ebay . com/itm/155521619912

I also don't know what the numbers on the sticker indicate but I assume the testing information? I can take some photos of it myself because I know the listing photos are really difficult to make out. It seems like the sticker reads 11.0 and 9.5 but I'm really uncertain.

EDIT - 01/30/2024: I am letting the tube burn in because I looked around online and that is what many others suggested including Mucker who replied below this post. From what I can tell now thinking about it/listening, the hiss is definitely dissipating and has gotten significantly better since I initially powered it on.

I created this post to ask about the hiss but my true question stems from a bit of FOMO. Is there a lot I could be missing out on by using my tube instead of the very specific version I mentioned above that is manufactured in 1956? To put it another way, what really distinguishes my tube (which I assume was manufactured more recently and is therefore cheaper) from the other listings that seem to be confirmed to have been manufactured in 1956? I'm really enjoying it and don't see why I would want to buy another one other than to say I have it at this point, or to find one that tests better.

I know I won't receive an answer that satisfies my line of questioning without being able to directly compare my tube to the more sought after and expensive version but I just thought I would ask because this question isn't really limited to this tube. So considering the following question that is broadly applicable to any tube, why are the newer versions/recreations cheaper and less sought after? Is it a classic case of elitism? Or are there genuine differences in how they are manufactured that could lead to different sounds? And should I even care? :)
 
N72826 said:
I also don't know what the numbers on the sticker indicate but I assume the testing information? I can take some photos of it myself because I know the listing photos are really difficult to make out. It seems like the sticker reads 11.0 and 9.5 but I'm really uncertain.
Click to expand...

That's the test result. The listing states it was tested on a Funke W19s.
This is a quality emission tester from Funke. That has a regulated anode voltage (150V voltage reg tube) and tests at 0 or -2V bias.
In case of the 12AU7 / ECC82 it tests as a diode.

To compare what would be the estimated result I allways suggest to look up other listings with tubes from this the tester used in the add. This gives a better idea of what the result should be.
As it now supposedly is tested "gut"/ good. The Funke is known as a tester that make's every tube look "good".

But this isn't whole story. Good on testers is a very widely used term.
When a tube gets more use; it wears out the cathode. And the insulation between heater and cathode may get small cracks. That can be heard as a hiss when used.

The following information is borrowed from a French forum.
First is the tube curves for ECC82 and how it should test in the Funke.
Second is a picture of the Funke W19. As you can see a good ECC82 is 17-20mA or thereabouts.

Curves.

Funke ECC82.


Hope this helps anyone for future purchases.
 
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