thinking about buying a turntable

A

aragorn723

New member
Hi,

I have been thinking about branching out into vinyl for a while (just got a few records a week ago-Simon and Garfunkel - Sounds of Silence, and The Very Best of Cream).  They look almost new (and not warped).  I don't have a turntable now, but was wondering what to look for in one besides maybe belt-drive.  Someone suggested looking at uturnaudio in another thread..  What makes a turntable good?

Dave
 
Ciao Dave,
if you've never set up a turntable, the "best" turntable is a new one (Project, Rega, ecc... even their entry-level models are good!).

TT performance depends on the accuracy with which you level the plate, set the tonearm, align the cartridge ecc... The older the turntable, the more difficult the set up (statistically speaking), the worst could be the sound!  :(

Moreover, as it has been written several times on "TNT audio", you can consider buying a new TT only if you already have a vinyl collection (but I don't agree 100%, 20 vinyl should be enough to buy a TT  ::)  ;D ;D ).
 
Bonzo said:
Ciao Dave,
The older the turntable, the more difficult the set up (statistically speaking), the worst could be the sound!  :(
Click to expand...

This is IMO, simply not true.  Quality vintage turntables were simple.  Can't get much simpler than a plinth, platter, bearing, motor and belt.  You can buy far more quality in a vintage TT, than a new TT for the same money.  Think Empire, Thorens, AR, even VPI HW19 Jr.  Some of the early Sansui and Pioneer belt drive, manual turntables with solid wooden plinths and decent arms will give a current entry level deck a good run for half the money. It is just not possible to newly manufacture a TT to the vintage level of quality for the same price at which the vintage decks sell today.

Bonzo said:
Moreover, as it has been written several times on "TNT audio", you can consider buying a new TT only if you already have a vinyl collection (but I don't agree 100%, 20 vinyl should be enough to buy a TT  ::)  ;D ;D ).
Click to expand...

You don't need anyone's blessing or permission to buy  a TT.  I mean really...how many folks waited to buy a CD player until they had a "collection" of CD's?  Your ears...Your $$!!

Of course, YMMV!

Cheers,
Geary
 
Ciao Geary,

not to create a flame, but are you sure that an used TT can be a good choice for a person who cannot say if it's in good working order or not?  ::)  (I'm assuming Dave is not a TT expert, but if the assumption is wrong feel free to correct me)

Speaking about Thorens, don't you think a suspended TT needs lot more care in set up than a not suspended one?

I'm not saying old platter aren't good (I own only vintage TT), but if you don't know exactly what to do you'll likely get bad sound and damage your records and the cartridge. With a new TT everything is more or less already set up and ready to use.

Speaking about my last statement, I'm not blessing anyone, I'm only saying that we invest money to listen to music: it's really a good choice to spend at least € 500 to listen to 3 records?  ???

In any case: peace, love and music for anyone!
 
The table's job (you asked what to look for in a table) is to spin the vinyl at 33 1/3 or 45 RPM without speed variances.  It also should not introduce noise, rumble, into the cartridge.

The arm's job is to allow the cartridge to track the grooves properly.  The grooves are very often not concentric with the hole in the middle of the LP.  So the arm must move forward and backward easily with every revolution. 

The cartridge's job is to produce the signal.  It is what makes the sound you hear so don't be cheap here.

I have a Dual 1219 that does a great job as a table/arm combination.  I also have a VPI HW-19 and Souther linear tracking arm.

My two cents worth of advice.
 
If this is going to be your first TT the U-Turn isn't a bad choice.
http://www.klipsch.com/blog/u-turn-audio-orbit-basic-turntable-review/

Did you know the U-Turn was a Kickstarter project ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-PG737sGww

Its simple and does the job. Also when you get the TT its completely setup.....no need for adjustments).
The U-Turn Orbit Plus Turntable also has a very nice Cartridge (Grado Black 1). But you can always upgrade later if needed.

Red_uTurn9553_Acrylic_Grado_no_Arm_1_F_8e4c6fa5-7271-444a-9f1a-ab1df497d96d_1024x1024.jpg


The U-Turn ,Pro-ject and such TT's are also excellent for a beginner as their prices start low and have good quality for money.
Also if you want better sound you can always go for a better sounding cartridge (as that is the part that actually produces the audio).

I own several vintage TT's and they sound fantastic. The only thing is that you need a bit of how a TT works and how to setup one.
Especially when you are going to change the cartridge or need to make repairs.

So in my opinion start with an entry level one and while listening to some great albums check out one of the many forums that deal with the wonderful world of TT's and vinyl.

Playing vinyl is so much fun  ;D
I haven't bought CD's in a long time now since I started to play my vinyl collection again.
The good thing is that a lot of artists still bring out their albums on vinyl and there are loads of repressings of old albums. Not to mention the the secondhand market is really booming (at least here in the Netherlands but it mmust be the same in the US).

One thing though.....you can't hookup the TT to any amplifier. You will need a phono pre-amp ....unless you have an amplifier that does have a phono input.
Phono pre-amps can be bought cheap and very expensive.......or you can build one yourself with a Bottlehead kit  8)

Whatever you're choise is going to be I'm sure you will enjoy listening to your albums !

Have fun  :)
 
I have been using a Dual 721 direct drive, fully automatic TT since the mid-'70s.
For almost 30 years I have used an Ortofon OM40 cartridge which has excellent resolution and detail charactistics.
This is obviously a "vintage" TT.  After all these years it is still "dead quiet" on low and silent passages (no rumble) and the speed control is spot on (low wow and flutter).
This is a fully automatic TT (automatic tonearm pick-up and set-down, pick-up and return, and unit turn off) and everything still works like new.  Given the many thousands of hours of operation (with only one complete overhaul and cleaning by me) it may be a rarity that this unit and the complex mechanisms required for automatic operation still work.
Given all that, a new TT is not a bad choice.  I haven't had a new TT for 40 years but I know there are excellent ones available at just about every price point.
Good Luck and welcome to the vinyl community.
 
Wow, thanks for all the replies!  So it sounds like the cartridge is the most important part for the sound.  Do they wear out?  I saw some turntables on eBay, but wonder what other sources are out there?  Here's the thing, I could buy a used one, but don't know how to tell if its set up right.  The local high-end store could prob do a setup, but how much would that be (figure about $100 for a used tt, then setup and possibly a cartridge).  Seems like that could get expensive fast, compared to a brand-new uturnaudio at $179.  Is the basic cartridge good, or should I jump to the grado (big fan of them) and upgraded platter?

For the phono stage, I'll hook it up to an onkyo ht receiver temporarily (got a phono stage in there) and eventually build something like a reduction to hook it up to the main stereo.

Dave


 
aragorn723 said:
Wow, thanks for all the replies!  So it sounds like the cartridge is the most important part for the sound.  Do they wear out?  I saw some turntables on eBay, but wonder what other sources are out there?  Here's the thing, I could buy a used one, but don't know how to tell if its set up right.  The local high-end store could prob do a setup, but how much would that be (figure about $100 for a used tt, then setup and possibly a cartridge).  Seems like that could get expensive fast, compared to a brand-new uturnaudio at $179.  Is the basic cartridge good, or should I jump to the grado (big fan of them) and upgraded platter?

For the phono stage, I'll hook it up to an onkyo ht receiver temporarily (got a phono stage in there) and eventually build something like a reduction to hook it up to the main stereo.

Dave
Click to expand...
Since you're a senior member here and are thinking about a Reduction, it's clear you won't be satisfied with a cheap new table or a 70's used "plastic fantastic". At least not after a few months.

You also express doubts about set-up.

No doubt in my mind that a Rega with an Exact cartridge that needs no mounting set-up is where you should begin. Buying a P-3 used from a "
high-end" audio site like Audiogon or Audio Asylum, you'll have a table from someone who probably took care in it's original purchase, maintenance and set-up. Right now, there are 3 P-3s on Audio Asylum in the $700 range and with patience you'll get something closer to $500.

Eventually. you will, of course, upgrade. You're a Bottlehead.





Edited to fix closure of quotation - PB
 
Check out http://www.soundstagedirect.com/.
New TTs by Clearaudio, Rega, Music Hall, Thorens, VPI in all price ranges (starting around $450).  Many come with supplied cartridges already setup and should be plug-n-play.
Not a bad place to look for a starter TT as well as some really fine higher end models.
 
Right now i'm leaning towards a uturnaudio table.  I like the idea of customizing the table and cartridge.  Here is the configuration:

Green table with Grado black 1 cartridge/Cue

Would this work well with the reduction?  Also, is the platter upgrade with it? 

Dave
 
Hi Dave,

Personally I would go for the platter upgrade as well.
I'm not really a big fan of MDF platters as I like my platters to be more solid.

The Uturn is a great way to step into the World of Vinyl without breaking the bank (it even has a unipivot arm ).
And its always possible to upgrade the Grado for another type in the future.

I would say go for it!

The reduction will work with the Uturn as its working with MM Cartridges which the Grado Black 1 happens to be.

 
Hi Arno,

Yep, it looks pretty sweet!  I looked at a whole bunch of other turntables (project, music hall, rega, marantz) up to around $450, and none of them had the same signal to noise ratio as the uturn (they were a lot lower).  What about grounding?  Is it better to have external grounding ?  I think the uturn is internally grounded.  Any thoughts?

Dave
 
All turntables will have a ground wire from the tonearm which connects to the ground post on the phono stage.
Just be aware that Grado cartridges are well known for 'hum' because the way they are designed & is somewhat system dependent.
 
Would this allow me to run a ground wire to the reduction?  The uturns dont have a phono stage built in.  Thanks for the heads up on the grados, gonna keep that in mind.  My concern would be buying one of these and having an annoying hum  :o
 
Ok, I just looked. I see that it doesn't have provision for a ground wire, & as you mention they say it is 'internally grounded' I think they are connecting the tonearm ground to one of the signal grounds, so a separate wire is not needed.
A quick web search also brings a response from the makers say that a separate ground wire can be run from the 'tonearm PCB' if needed.

Anyway, it's not an issue really. I find that I don't actually need to run the ground wire to my Reduction, it makes no difference either way. Different set-ups may vary though, don't know until you try.
Same thing re the Grado cartridges. I had one in one deck that was fine, another in a different deck hummed like mad.
 
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