The MAC Mini Thread

[Natural Sound]

I'm real interested in building a music server for my lossless music files. I'm seriously considering a MAC Mini for the job. If anyone has information that can get me started please post it here. I'd be interested in hearing about hardware, software, modifications, compatible DAC's and the best lossless formats. And of course, how it integrates into your Bottlehead gear.

 

[Doc B]

For software Amarra is great. I'm using an older Intel Core Duo Mini that has has a processor upgrade to something like 2GHz. It's limited to 2GB of RAM, which is not really enough for the best performance, as Amarra and Itunes running together really gobble it up. A later Mini that can handle more RAM would probably be more suitable. I don't use lossless compression because the difference in quality compared to AIFF or WAV is very obvious in my setup.  External drives are cheap enough that I feel I can justify storage in the larger file size.

 

[Pfenning]

OK, not trying to hijack your thread, but I have questions too. Is the music server for convenience only? I can't see how it could change the current sound quality of my cd's? Plus, the thought of adding all my cd's to another computer is not appealing to me. Do I have to buy my favorite albums again from one of the online sellers offering higher quality recordings? How close are those higher quality recordings to vinyl? I'll be watching this thread close. Thanks.

Pfenning

 

[BNAL]

I have all my music saved as flac, and use a squeezebox. I do not let the player decode the flac files. I do the decoding on my computer first. This seems to make a noticeable improvement in sound quality. If I were to guess I would think that it has to do with the additional processing required by the computer to convert a lossless file that is effecting sound quality.

 

[tdogzthmn]

If your running OSX for software I strongly recommend you look at using BitPerfect which is found on the Mac App Store.  It's only $4.99 and made a considerable improvement with my DAC performance, especially with the new version 1.0 which has been noticeably better and has a bunch of ways to tweak how you send the audio signal through the computer.  

For me, its a must try.    

 

[corndog71]

I thought AIFF and WAV were lossless.  I use apple lossless in itunes and they sound as good as the CD as far as I can tell.  Of course higher resolution files will sound better than CD's limited 16 bit format.  But apple lossless is clearly superior to any compressed songs.  Good vinyl on a good table still kicks ass though.

I've read that the Mac Mini makes a great music server.  And if you have an ipod touch, ipad, or iphone you can get a remote app that allows you full control of your music library.

There's a company that sells slightly modified (warranty intact) mac minis as music servers.  
www.mach2music.com  They can also upgrade a currently owned 2010-2011 mac mini.  I want to get one but the price is a bit over my typical allowance for such things.  I'll probably do it in steps.

I would also disagree that a digital signal is a digital signal and that's it.  Stereophile debunked that over a decade ago.

 

[randy@matrixq.com]

I think what Doc was saying about lossless compression was that he chooses not to allow any compression when creating lossless files.  You can, for example, utilize some file compression without loss.  FLAC, for example, allows you to choose some compression if you want it.  When playing the computer/decoder will have to uncompress the file, but there is enough information there to restore it to its original form.

Lossy compression takes compression to the point that perfect restoration is no longer possible.  Some parts are intentionally left out to get the smallest file size.

Also, my understanding about the Mac Minis is that they are loved for their quiet operation.  I use a standard PC tower and the fan was so loud that I ended up moving it to another room. 

 

[Chris]

Sorry to clarify, you are saying that raw uncompressed files and something like apple lossless (i also use), have the potential to sound the same using the SAME playback equipment?

 

[grufti]

Yes, lossless means that the bits received by the digital to analog conversion process will be the exact same bits that were in the uncompressed file. Lossless refers to the algorithm [the math] used to go from original to compressed to original ... no loss, same bits. The advantage is smaller file ... the cost is more processing, but even stoneage cpu's chuckle about the workload involved in going back and forth.

Sorry to clarify, you are saying that raw uncompressed files and something like apple lossless (i also use), have the potential to sound the same using the playback equipment?

 

[Grainger49]

How does lossless compression change the quality when the name implies that literally there is no loss?  If there is a difference that's not placebo, it sounds like a faulty software decoder, to me.

I have to admit, "Lossless Compression" is an oxymoron.  But the marketing guys get to call it whatever they want.  Obviously if the data is compressed something is lost.  128 is not equal to 64, even a fifth grader knows that, I hope!

Still the marketing guys are to blame, not the engineers.

For the OP, I have a buddy who is running a music server on a Mac Mini.  I will email him and point him to this thread.  I have heard the system and it sounds good.  Not the best I have ever heard, that is reserved to some over $100,000 systems I have heard, but I relaxed and listened to his system for hours.

Edit: I contacted him we will see if I can lure him here. 

Now I have the analogy of Winzip I see that there can be compression without data loss.  I'm not stupid just ignorant of some computer related functions.

 

[Wanderer]

I have to admit, "Lossless Compression" is an oxymoron.

No, it is not an oxymoron, IF the data that is being compressed out is redundant AND the results of the decompressed file is indential to the orignal uncompresed file. The bit stream can, and has, been compared between the source data and FLAC compressed/decompressed data. The numbers in are the same as as the numbers out. No loss = "lossless".

I can write

"222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222"

or I can write

"2  sixty times"

or

"2 60x"

Some versions take up less space but all translate to the same thing. Same information is stored in less space.     

I am NOT saying that in real world FLAC encode/decode will always sound the same as the orginal, but the difference points to an error in the system somewhere. 

    Kevin R-M
 

 

[Tickwomp]

I have one of the Mach2 Mac Minis.  Love it.  I went with battery powered option, and recently added the Pi Audio Battery Buss.  Was so impressed with the Battery Buss I just ordered an Uber Buss (for the AC powered stuff).

I have both Amarra and Pure Music.  They both sound wonderful, but I prefer the Amarra.  My Mini is controlled with an iPad and I don't even have a monitor or mouse/keyboard connected.  I use iTap VNC on the iPad to connect to the Mach2 via Wlan and it works very well.  I had a boatload of FLAC material on various drives, but used XLD to convert everything to AIFF to store on my music storage drive.  Adding new music is super easy too.  If I have it on a USB drive, I simply plug it into the Mach2 and open XLD and save it to the storage drive.  Ripping CDs is stupid simple too, but because I don't leave the optical drive connected to the Mach2, I have to drag it out and plug it in.  The drive is setup to automatically rip the CD into storage drive.  

Early on, after I got the music server working properly I compared it to my Oppo 83SE NuForce modded player and it was really no contest.  Music player killed the Oppo in every aspect.  Add in the convience factor of never having to dick around with CDs again makes this something I could have only dreamed of 10 years ago.  

Tick

 

[Doc B]

Tim, we really try hard to be supportive in this community. I think you have spent time acquiring a good base of knowledge worth sharing. But your posts are unnecessarily aggressive, and it has come to my attention that they are turning a lot of people off. That may be the effect you wish to achieve or it may be unintentional. Regardless, I would appreciate your toning down the intolerant nature of your writing.

A good friend of mine once told me "When I was young I had all the answers. As I got older I found out there were a lot more questions."

 

[Paul Joppa]

... I'm just saying that it means something in the playing software chain MUST be broken for this to happen.

Given the widespread observations by many whose ears are really good, I think that must be the case.

It does not, unfortunately, follow that anybody actually knows what that something is.

 

[BNAL]

I agress and it sounds like it could be codec issue.

 

[Yoder]

I'm real interested in building a music server for my lossless music files. I'm seriously considering a MAC Mini for the job. If anyone has information that can get me started please post it here. I'd be interested in hearing about hardware, software, modifications, compatible DAC's and the best lossless formats. And of course, how it integrates into your Bottlehead gear.

I bought a new mini few months ago and have slowly been converting it to a music server. Once I get a next generation of iMac, is when it becomes a fully dedicated server--about the time I finish my Paramount's, Foreplay III, and soon to be purchased Eros. I bought it with Lion, and a 500 Gb HD. I took it down to the local Apple vendor and they slapped a 64 Gb SSD in it for $140 or so and I use the 500 Gb as my secondary drive for music. I am running Amarra, and am slow disabling certain apps/utilities in the OS, etc. Per the suggestions here I downloaded demos of PureMusic, Amarra, Audvara, etc., and came away preferring the sound of Amarra.

I convert everything to AIFF. Amarra will take FLAC files/folders and do it for you. In fact, last night I downloaded about 12 Gb of free FLAC24 audio and converted all of them to AIFF with Amarra. I may be wrong, but logically it seems that playing FLAC or any compressed file will put extra demands on the CPU since they must be decompressed. I have not run into any problems running Amarra with Lion, and using Bottlehead components. Initially, they were saying that Lion was a less superior audio wise but I have not noticed any difference. I use the optical output of the mini and was using a Firewire DAC for awhile to connect to my DAC.

For comparison, I have a CD player hooked-up to the mini system. When I do not pass the audio through the Amarra there is a profound difference in audio quality. Bottom line, the mini system is far superior to the CD player.

I also have 4-backup drives to store all of my audio files on. Another option is that you can hook-up one of your audio hard drives to Airport Extreme, and the audio can then be played on any computer through out the house.

 

[btrancho]

In fact, last night I downloaded about 12 Gb of free FLAC24 audio and converted all of them to AIFF with Amarra.

Not to spin this thread off in even another direction, but I'd be interested in where you were able to download 12GB of free FLAC24 files and what genre of music it is.

 

[Gallowglass]

Hi, I am the guy Grainger49 (there is only one) posted about earlier on. I assume this thread is still about Mac Mini use and hasn't gotten completely off topic.

I picked up a very used 1.5 GHz Intel Core Solo in trade for a MacBook that had suffered some form of breakage on every piece of plastic on it. This MacBook was owned by my son who is eminently qualified to be the stunt double for the gorilla on the old Samsonite commercial, but I digress. Maxed out the memory to 2 GiB, which is just enough to run Pure Music memory play properly. Although I use the Mac for playback, I typically control it using UltraVNC on my Windows 7 notebook.

My music is typically ripped WAV or downloaded FLAC files which I then convert to Apple Lossless before storing on a Buffalo TeraStation NAS, also picked up used off of Craigslist, then upgraded with bigger drives. The Mac and the Terastation are both hardwired to the home network. I use a 6 inch generic USB cable from the Mac to a Wavelength Brick V1. I am fond of the NOS sound (used to own an Ack! DAC), but will probably give in and upgrade the DAC to v3 eventually.  Amplification is a Red Wine Audio Signature 30 via Kimber 8VS to vintage Spendor SP-1 loudspeakers. Sorry, no tubes except for the Brick. I am looking for an LFD Mistral if anyone here happens to have one they would consider selling

This approach, which has been put together over a couple of years without benefit of any homologation, has resulted in sound that my golden eared purist friend thinks doesn't sound bad at all. YMMV. My musical taste runs the gamut, so not limited to small ensembles or "audiophile approved" recordings. As they say, hope this helps.

 

[Grainger49]

Ok, Doug's quote, "Doesn't suck at all" isn't what I said and that is why he didn't put quotes around it.  

I might have heard three server systems and Doug's is the best.  We all but lulled ourselves to sleep relaxing and listening.

And welcome to the forum.

 

[Yoder]

Not to spin this thread off in even another direction, but I'd be interested in where you were able to download 12GB of free FLAC24 files and what genre of music it is.

The wife financed some B&W CM1's for my computer set-up (my workstation is in a 250 sq ft room) for my birthday last month. When I registered the B&W speakers they said I could download up to three albums at their site. Since I registered both speakers, then I assumed that I was going to get six downloads. The downloads started crapping out after x-number and so I went into the "Settings" of their download manager and increased my download disk space size from 5 Gb to 20 Gb, and started downloading like a maniac. I was able to download everything that struck my fancy, and did. The only stuff I liked was the classical. They had the new Thomas Dolby and I did not like it at all, and there were a few other "pop" artists that were equally as bad in my opinion. But, you can't go wrong with Beethoven, Debussy, Handel, Mozart, etc.

In the past companies like Mercedes-Benz, Audi, etc. would make available free music. The like to show off their quality audio systems. It is a hit-or-miss thing, sometimes you get some great stuff and other times it just plain old sucks.