Speaker upgrade confusion
- Thread starter adamct
- Start date
4
4krow
Guest
Rob, Yah, I used a clear coating over the black. The coating has reflective qualities and really messes with flash photography. I'll get some new photo's and post them.
matthewmckay
New member
"From what I understand, Zaph Audio is well-respected when it comes to speaker designs, the kit uses well-regarded components (including two Scan-Speak Revelator drivers per speaker), the crossover (particularly the upgraded version) seems to use pretty good components, etc. Are commercial speakers that cost, say $8,000+ really going to be better? Or would I be paying for $5,000 worth of veneer and marketing, but getting inferior components and sound quality? I know that good components are not, by themselves, a guarantee of sound quality, but it isn't like this is some cockamamie design from an amateur hackjob..."
Hi Adam,
FWIW... I built a pair of zaph ZD5's last winter. I went with solid maple for the enclosures (spent some serious coin on my woodworking setup) and got the crossovers pre-built from madisound. I am using a gainclone I built (LM3875) with a foreplay III in front of it as my spare-bedroom/theater/gaming setup. I originally planned to put these speakers in the main setup in the living room, but they kick so much ass for watching movies/listening to internet radio/playing call of duty that I can't bring myself to move them into the other room. They have a spooky 3-dimensional sound and I have caught myself jumping out of my seat several times when I hear footsteps or door-knocks behind my head.
They are expensive... and a lot of work (if you have never built your own cabinets)... but knowing what I know now, it would be worth paying an extra $500 to do the work for you. They pretty much destroy anything else that I have come acrossed... would love to hear the ZRT's as well.
-matt
Hi Adam,
FWIW... I built a pair of zaph ZD5's last winter. I went with solid maple for the enclosures (spent some serious coin on my woodworking setup) and got the crossovers pre-built from madisound. I am using a gainclone I built (LM3875) with a foreplay III in front of it as my spare-bedroom/theater/gaming setup. I originally planned to put these speakers in the main setup in the living room, but they kick so much ass for watching movies/listening to internet radio/playing call of duty that I can't bring myself to move them into the other room. They have a spooky 3-dimensional sound and I have caught myself jumping out of my seat several times when I hear footsteps or door-knocks behind my head.
They are expensive... and a lot of work (if you have never built your own cabinets)... but knowing what I know now, it would be worth paying an extra $500 to do the work for you. They pretty much destroy anything else that I have come acrossed... would love to hear the ZRT's as well.
-matt
4
4krow
Guest
Speakers cost not related, can be all over the map as to what they can do sonically. I have felt sorry for a few gents who laid down serious coin just to get some nice looking furniture that really wasn't impressive otherwise. Price is no guarantee of quality. It's not fair.
I think Matt has the idea... Build your own. There is nothing to these speakers these days. Its all crap. The crossovers.. forget about it! What I did, even back in the mid 70's, is have a cabinet maker build the cabinets. I built the crossover and installed the whole thing. In the day it was a "Speakerlab". You can MUCH better today with drivers right off Parts Express, and crossover components from Madison Sound or PartsConnection etc.
Paul Joppa
Moderator
FWIW, I don't think it's possible to sell a complete speaker in a store for less than 10 times the cost of the drivers plus crossover. At least, not if you hope to stay in business.
Grainger49
New member
I'm going to admit up front that I didn't read all the posts. I read the OP and then marked it unread till I had time to form a response.
I will go with "it is a planar sound thing." I sold Magnepan/Magneplanars in the 70s. I own Servo Statik-I Electrostatics, broken of course, but still have them. So they impressed you and should have for the reasons you stated. You like the strengths of Planar speakers.
There is something to the planar sound. They have great dynamics, detail and wide deep imaging/soundstage. Most dynamic speakers don't do that, or do it easily. It is an "effortless" sound from planars. Then there is the power requirements. Electrostatics need a big voltage swing, little current. The Magnetic Planar speakers need a lot of current. Well, you don't get anything for free.
It takes a lot of design, engineering and trial and error to make a box speaker not "boxy." I have owned a few. Heard a few more. But most box speakers sound boxy to me. And once you hear it you are no longer a virgin. You can't go back.
Have you heard the Blumenstein speakers? The box is minimal, the imaging and soundstage are right up there with a planar speaker. If not, where are you? (You have probably posted your location but I'm old and I forget what I had for breakfast yesterday) They have the immediacy, intimacy, dynamics, imaging/soundstage that you have heard in planars. Not to mention, I have mine aimed straight ahead. When I have guests I often sit a foot or two to the outside of one speaker or another. I hear amazing soundstage in a position that any other box speaker I have owned would collapse to mono. If I were you I would go with 30 day return offered by Clark and Molly. Go for the big subs/amps and Orcas.
As for the Madisound kit, we are back at you are no longer a virgin. You have tasted the Planar sound and I doubt that it will deliver it. I may be wrong, and have been too often in my life.
Ok, I jumped all around but I think I covered the first post. Now I will go back and read all the other comments.
I will go with "it is a planar sound thing." I sold Magnepan/Magneplanars in the 70s. I own Servo Statik-I Electrostatics, broken of course, but still have them. So they impressed you and should have for the reasons you stated. You like the strengths of Planar speakers.
There is something to the planar sound. They have great dynamics, detail and wide deep imaging/soundstage. Most dynamic speakers don't do that, or do it easily. It is an "effortless" sound from planars. Then there is the power requirements. Electrostatics need a big voltage swing, little current. The Magnetic Planar speakers need a lot of current. Well, you don't get anything for free.
It takes a lot of design, engineering and trial and error to make a box speaker not "boxy." I have owned a few. Heard a few more. But most box speakers sound boxy to me. And once you hear it you are no longer a virgin. You can't go back.
Have you heard the Blumenstein speakers? The box is minimal, the imaging and soundstage are right up there with a planar speaker. If not, where are you? (You have probably posted your location but I'm old and I forget what I had for breakfast yesterday) They have the immediacy, intimacy, dynamics, imaging/soundstage that you have heard in planars. Not to mention, I have mine aimed straight ahead. When I have guests I often sit a foot or two to the outside of one speaker or another. I hear amazing soundstage in a position that any other box speaker I have owned would collapse to mono. If I were you I would go with 30 day return offered by Clark and Molly. Go for the big subs/amps and Orcas.
As for the Madisound kit, we are back at you are no longer a virgin. You have tasted the Planar sound and I doubt that it will deliver it. I may be wrong, and have been too often in my life.
Ok, I jumped all around but I think I covered the first post. Now I will go back and read all the other comments.
Grainger,
You answered my questions and then some! Thanks a ton. And I would love to take you up on your offer, but I am up in the wilds of Connecticut, so not close to anywhere except maybe Boston.
The Orcas definitely have my attention. If I can find the time to finish my S.E.X., I will likely take your advice. I might still wind up building a speaker kit just for the fun of it, but the Orcas would fit perfectly in my bedroom with the S.E.X....
Best,
Adam
You answered my questions and then some! Thanks a ton. And I would love to take you up on your offer, but I am up in the wilds of Connecticut, so not close to anywhere except maybe Boston.
The Orcas definitely have my attention. If I can find the time to finish my S.E.X., I will likely take your advice. I might still wind up building a speaker kit just for the fun of it, but the Orcas would fit perfectly in my bedroom with the S.E.X....
Best,
Adam
Grainger49
New member
Drive, Fly, I'll feed you steak and Bourbon. I get out of my contract the end of this month and will be off for 4-8 weeks. Offer stands.
See, ... thats where my insecurities start coming out! When I think about other people whose experience/judgement I actually respect. What if the dont like the sound of my years of endless tweaks? One of those... Yea, thats good..... can you turn it down a little?... I dont think that would happen. Its just an irrational fear. One of many I'm afraid.... (Greg.. dont start!).
You will never know if you like a speaker until you hear it and even then, long term listening may change your mind. I recently went to Lone Star Audio Fest in Dallas and was able to hear 20 -30 different speakers in a few hours. Surprisingly, speaker type didn't predict good sound. Some box speakers had a nice wide open sound. As for building speakers, the actual driver is critical to the sound. I built some Basszilla spkrs and was underimpressed and it took several hot summer months to build them. Then I tried a cheaper single driver (Fostex FE206e) in a simple piece of MDF (took abt an hour) and liked it better. So no simple answers. When you find a speaker you like, spend the time on the rest of the gear and enjoy.
I have been enjoying my current home made open baffles speakers for a couple of years, but I get worried that I am not hearing correctly or some such. So I recently bought a pair of Maggie 1.7s and an Emotiva XPA2 amp and spent a month comparing them to my Paramount/open baffles. Both sound nice - large open sound, but I have finally settled on sticking with my old system. The Maggies give me a very accurate view of the artist in the recording venue, complete with hall sounds where recorded - my old system doesn't give me all the hall sounds and spatial cues, but it places the performers in my room, a view I prefer. But the only way I could find this out was to pony up the dough and try them out long term at home. Hopefully I'll recoup most of my costs when I resale them. I look on the loss as rent for toys. Do you live where you can hear systems at friends? Join a club. I started a club in Michigan at one time just to do this and it worked out great - grew to over 20 members before I moved back to Louisiana. Unfortunately in NE Louisiana I have only 2 friends who are into audio and no stores, so I have to spend money to meet my goals. I am going to RMAF in October as one of my few ways to hear new things.
Again, you cannot know what it sounds like and if you like it until YOU hear it.
I have been enjoying my current home made open baffles speakers for a couple of years, but I get worried that I am not hearing correctly or some such. So I recently bought a pair of Maggie 1.7s and an Emotiva XPA2 amp and spent a month comparing them to my Paramount/open baffles. Both sound nice - large open sound, but I have finally settled on sticking with my old system. The Maggies give me a very accurate view of the artist in the recording venue, complete with hall sounds where recorded - my old system doesn't give me all the hall sounds and spatial cues, but it places the performers in my room, a view I prefer. But the only way I could find this out was to pony up the dough and try them out long term at home. Hopefully I'll recoup most of my costs when I resale them. I look on the loss as rent for toys. Do you live where you can hear systems at friends? Join a club. I started a club in Michigan at one time just to do this and it worked out great - grew to over 20 members before I moved back to Louisiana. Unfortunately in NE Louisiana I have only 2 friends who are into audio and no stores, so I have to spend money to meet my goals. I am going to RMAF in October as one of my few ways to hear new things.
Again, you cannot know what it sounds like and if you like it until YOU hear it.
