Seduction hum (how much is normal?)

I believe it is 120 Hz hum as described by Paul Joppa above.  Obviously the Seduction is the source.  

Back at answer $46 Paul Joppa suggested that you try grounding through a resistor.  I am assuming grounding the turntable.  Try a high resistance, 100k to 1M ohms.  But I am just not sure where to add the resistance.

I'm going to have to think on this and get back to you.
 
Hum and buzz is the single most frustrating problem with systems! Patience and persistence seems to be the best answer there is; experience helps (hence the Forum) but not as much as you might hope.

The signal ground starts at the ground plane which is electrically connected to the chassis plate at the ground post. The power line safety ground is connected to the chassis plate near the IEC socket - that's how the two are connected.

When touching things helps, it is quite possible that the interference is radio frequency pickup. For example, perhaps the CD player has a switch-mode power supply which is not well shielded, or which radiates from its power cord (poor line shielding). Or something else - a light dimmer, flourescent lights, battery vibrator in an adjacent apartment (no kidding, it's happened). Another source used to be television signals, with its 59.94Hz vertical refresh rate.  The usual answer is shielding, such as the tube shields and a metal box around the circuitry - the chassis is drilled for it. I can't put my hands on it but there must be a thread or two - can someone find it?

Shielding acts on electric fields by surrounding the circuitry with a metal container which is grounded, draining any induced field to ground. That's one of the reasons I wanted to start the search for causes by making sure all the grounds were in place. Normally I would expect that if the chassis is well grounded, then touching it will just drain whatever your body picks up to ground, and will not have an effect. So I think the jury is still out on what is the real cause of what you are hearing.
 
Laudanum said:
At this point, I would think the Hammond 1590J be worth a shot ... $12.

Does it have the right dimensions? Seems small to me. I have a Hammond that I got for the Quickie but never used. It's surely the right W and D dimensions, but is probably not hight enough...
 
From the Seduction product description page (and it's also in the manual if memory serves):

"For those who live in RFI rich environments, mounting holes for a die cast Hammond aluminum box (PN 1590J) that you can modify slightly with a file to fit are provided to allow you to shield the entire preamplifier circuit from RF..."
 
I can definitely say I'm dealing with a low hum. And it isn't THAT bad at the volumes I use my system. BUT, it would be nice to minimize it a la my holding it and touching the ground.... I'm not in a high RF area, I don't think. No dimmers, and really no other electrical things in this side of the house. I'll play around with turning stuff on/off in other rooms to see what difference this makes, and I'll also try completely unplugging the CD player. Turning it from standby to off made a big difference. Maybe unplugging it will do the rest.

If only I could replicate the ground my body serves with something else...

And if someone can tell me which Hammong enclosure to get, I'll try that, too.
 
denti alligator said:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=lxPAlgZqN%2FwBkmsjCw3f7A%3D%3D
those dimensions wouldn't work.

I wouldnt think that BH would have named the part and made the holes in the top plate accordingly to line up with those of the Hammond box if it wouldnt work.  It doesnt cover the entire bottom of the top plate, just the preamp section.  The 4 open mounting holes in the top plate measure out pretty close to the listed dimensions of the box.  Granted, I dont have one on hand or installed so I cant guarantee it fits from personal experience.  And I dont know if it will help with your problem.  But Paul mentioned RFI a few posts up and that's what they state the accomodations for the hammond box were made for.  Just thought I'd mention it for what it's worth.
 
Sam-google- star grounding-read and possibly implement-also go into your seduction and suck or wick  the solder off the grounding points and resolder-ck anything else that gets your attention-ck your turntable ground wire -i have had that as a problem-and this next option always gets me in trouble-get a plug adapter without the ground-if that works -remove the grounding prong with pliers- most houses have the nuetral connected to ground at the panel anyway-now if your listening area has a inch or two of water on the floor -i would not recommend this



















 
Star grounding sounds simple, at first, but then I get lost and wouldn't know how to proceed with the few pieces in my system:

http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/stargnd/stargnd.htm

http://www.aikenamps.com/StarGround.html

http://www.lh-electric.net/tutorials/gnd_loop.html
 
Unfortunately, the Hammond box won't fit, but only because I have switched out the caps for somewhat larger ones that woudn't fit in the only 1.77" height.

Another potential clue to the source of the hum: if I *just* put my finger on the Sed ground, the hum is only reduced very, very slightly. Only when I also touch the *wooden* base at the same time is the hum reduced significantly.

I've experimented with this, touching the chasis and ground, other amps and ground, other amp bases and ground, etc. Only touching the wooden base and the ground lug does the trick. (This is why holding the amp and touching the ground lug made such a difference.) NBot sure if this helps figure out the source of the hum. To me it suggests a grounding issue, not RF.
 
Sam,

I have seen pictures of a Seduction with holes drilled through the box so long leads could be used on the capacitors.  The cap leads were fed through the holes, soldered on and then the box screwed to the top plate.

It might work for you.
 
sam-- when you touch sed ground and chassis thus reducing hum is your turntable plugged in --is the turntable on the same outlet or string of outlets from one circuit or are they on different circuits--the same question for sex and seduction-turntable
 
denti alligator said:
(Maybe I'm being overly sensitive. The noise isn't that audible, if at all, at normal volumes through speakers. Only with quiet music turned up to a high volume on 'phones can it be heard. I'm testing without music and with volume turned way up with 'phones on, so the hum can sound pretty dramatic.)

You'll drive yourself nuts doing that, turning things all the way up without signal just amplifies the noise floor to its maximum potential, often times "testing" a scenario that you would never encounter while listening. 
 
sam--if you google --regap3-24 hum problems there is info-some say the tt is picking up hum from amps-others say maybe bad ground in turntable-also google ground loop hums there is info there
 
howardnair said:
sam-- when you touch sed ground and chassis thus reducing hum is your turntable plugged in --is the turntable on the same outlet or string of outlets from one circuit or are they on different circuits--the same question for sex and seduction-turntable

It's not the TT. With and without TT plugged in = same effect.

I'm gonna learn to be less anal and live with it, knowing I don't hear it most of the time, anyway.
 
Two thoughts-

1) Your hand may be providing a radio frequency shield around the side of the box. The ground plane made up of the chassis plate does provide some shielding, but is most effective on parts and wires that are closest to the plate.

2) There is a bit of residual hum in the tube closest to the power transformer; this is the magnetic field of the power transformer affecting the tube, or perhaps bending the electron stream. I don't remember (if it was ever posted) what your cartridge sensitivity is, but that hum is usually OK with carts of 3-5mV or greater. That's because with a higher output cartridge you turn the volume at the amp down.
 
What's an effective DIY RF shield that I can use to test with the Sed, before going with the Hammond box, which really will be a pain to install given my cap upgrades?
 
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