Quickie mods

[earwaxxer]

Due to popular request (well, just Granger actually), I am going to list all mods I have done to the poor Quickie, transforming her into a 'horse of different color' - well, she's pretty damn ugly if you get right down to it - but she sings like Pavarotti!

Please refer to attached photos, and follow along with the lecture. Since Granger is looking for maximum tweak value for the time and money I will start with (surprise, surprise) limiting micro-phonics, ring, hum and 'smear'.

1. (See tube close up photo) - I did all I could do to dampen the tubes, short of burying them in the ground! Forget those stupid little POS rings that you slide on the tube. I found that the Quickie sound CONTINUED to improve the more I isolated the tubes. It was over many steps that I got to were I am now. All parts are found at your local hardware store. Standard copper tubing, I think it was 1/2". The tube should fit easily in the pipe. I took some strips of Velcro to line the inside until the tube fit snug.

There's more - I took aluminum foil and laid out a long strip, put some epoxy on the leading edge and rolled the pipe (once cut to size) up in aluminum foil, probably about 6 layers. Then wrap the outside of the pipe with a bunch of rubber bands, and then paint the thing whatever color you choose. Lastly, take one or two spongy ear plugs. Insert the tubes. Compress the ear plugs into the pipe, snug up against the tube.

2. Insulate and dampen the chassis. Use whatever insulating tape or whatever you choose and tape the bottom of the chassis. Take a glue gun, circle the tube sockets both top and bottom. Paint the glue after it cools if it looks like shit.

Ok - now the sexy part - boutique hardware! (ie. get your wallet out)
1. Replace volume pot - I choose TKD. TKD is the Audio Note supplier. I like it. Is it hugely better than an Alps pot? Dont know. This choice will be based on budget. I have seen $400 pots!
2. Next comes the resistors, caps, chokes, PJCCS etc.
      a. Resistors - I used Tants. Do some research, see what you think would blend with your system. Parts express is a good place to start. They have good parts to get you going down the right road.
      b. Capacitors - much bigger variables here. For the coupling caps I used Mundorf silver/oils. I really like them. You can try various 'oilers' to see if you like them before you shell out the big bucks - Granger likes the Obbligatto film/oils. Oils tend to have a 'smooth' sound. The pricy ones do many things very well. Replace the electrolytic with a film cap. I used Mundorf MKP. That choice is not so critical as the couplers.
      c. PJCCS, resistor or chokes? This is were your system will dictate which way you go. If you also have tubes in your power amp you may prefer the PJCCS (clean, low distortion). If you have SS with a digital front end, with silver wires and high resolution speakers (horns, plannars, electrostats) you may like the chokes (big, easy, sexy, brings out the tubes). I think resistor would be the last choice, although I havent really gone back to the resistor. I have gone back and forth many times with the PJCCS/chokes. Wire the chokes as close as possible. I got more hum when the wires got longer. Double stick the choke to the chassis with some heavy duty tape (also helps with damping).
      d. Internal wiring - I used pure silver. Sorry. I like silver. I find it to be clean and revealing. The only place I used copper was on the power lines.
      e. Batteries - the only thing I can say here, is that I 'think' I like my large NMH pack the best (vs. Lipo4). Lead acid I'm sure would do the same. Run some decent gauge wire from the battery. Lots of quick reserve power. I also took Paul's advice and bypassed it with a cap (22uF). Not sure if it helps or not. Time will tell.
      f. I have NOT invested in boutique RCA jacks. That could be next, but probably not.
      g. Base - As you can see, I used crutch tips for the feet/base (open air design - more like the easy way out design). My Quickie sits on the carpeted floor over a tension concrete slab. Solid.

The red wire hanging out is a ground wire that I connect to my DAC chassis. It got rid of the hum. RCA grounding may also be the culprit. Dont care, it works. - As of today, and for the recent past, I have NO hum, ringing, fuzz, or any other typical tube shenanigans. Not that I mind them in small doses.

Brings me to my last 'mod'. Telefunken tubes. For sure the best in all ways IMO. Sound, ring, tube shenanigans etc. If you see them, buy them.

Ok now for the ranking - in order of sound benefits/bang for buck.

1. Sound deadening/micro-phonics prevention. For sure the cheapest, and IMO the most important. The Quickie is ridiculously micro-phonic, if you dont believe me clap your hands! Its important to stop this, not only for the ringing but there is smearing of the signal. Its hard to hear. The best way to test for that is to make a super insulating cover for the tubes. Listen to the sound for awhile, low and high volume, then take them off and repeat the process.

2. Caps - coupling caps are #1 after sound deadening. I feel that a pair of $50 caps in this position is well worth it. Personally, I like Mundorf for the bucks. I would love to hear a V-cap in there though! It starts getting silly. The good thing about caps is that they can be used in many different DIY applications. The money will not go to waist.

3. PJCCS, or chokes. I can 'clearly' hear a difference between having them in or not. Same as with the caps. 

4. Pot - no, not that kind. That would probably be #1, but the volume control is up there, but dont loose your mind. I am happy with a $45 pot. IMO a good pot gives you better staging and 'air'.

5. Internal wiring - highly debatable topic. I'll put it at number 3.

6. Resistors - I dont really know about this one, since I did most of the mods at one time. Resistors may come after chokes, but this would be my guess.

So, that does it. Not sure if I got them all. Let me know if there is something I missed!

 

[matthewmckay]

Hey Eric,

Thankyou for taking the time to post that.

I have had a somewhat different experience with dampening the tubes in my quickie.  I had initially wrapped mine with several layers of teflon tape, which made a noticeable improvement to the ringing.  It was still not quite to my satisfaction, so I added more (about 1/8 roll per tube). This brought me closer to where I wanted to be. 

At that stage, I was sort of drunk with power at my tweaking ability, so I decided to go crazy and add a shit-ton more PTFE and weight (very tightly wrapped copper wire with additional teflon tape around the outside) to each tube.  This made a startlingly negative impact to the sound.  I had sucked the life out of my quickie, leaving behind a very dull and over-damped (compressed/muffled?) sort of sound.  Removing the additional weight and layers of PTFE brought back the magic that I had before.

I suspect that each system and tubeset will have a different response to the dampening process, and for some.. may not be necessary at all.  I bet all that silver in your quickie makes it very revealing, where any vibrations in the tube at all is painfully brought to attention... I say this because I did the experiment with 4 sets of 3s4's that I had lying around, and found that there was a point where each could overdamped in my system.


I would only add to your post, that for some cheaper thrills, throwing a couple of elna silmics and a pair of Caddock's in for bypass, makes a very cheap and transformative change to this preamp.  (much cleaner and punchier bass than stock.)

I second the telefunken tubes as well... they are very choice.  (the vintage RCA's are sweet as well)

 

[earwaxxer]

Hey Matt - interesting!

I started with silicone and rubber bands. Then progressed slowly to where I am now. I ran them 'nude' for a period as well. I think I have experienced what you are talking about, being 'over damped'. I dont remember what I did that caused that kind of sound. Thats when I was running nude for awhile. These are, for sure, VERY subjective changes!

I never tried Teflon. I have a feeling that the sound ends up reflecting back and forth within the tube, which causes that 'dead' sound. Thats why I went with metals covered with rubber. Hum... how about lead! Who knows, maybe I should have thrown in an 'eye of neut'!

I think in the end, I stuck with whatever techniques provided the most 'stability'. The tube rolling produced such large differences that I kept the dampers a constant variable.

I also had the 1000uF elna silmics in for the electrolytics. I really like them, I have used them in my t-amps, but the films sound better IMO. Not by much though.

I also like the RCA's! Now my second favorite with the Quickie!

cheers - Eric

 

[cpaul]

Thanks for the report, Eric.

FWIW, for me, the NOS RCA tubes I found rang like Quasimodo, and it was the "Mullard" CV820s that were quietest.  I do hope to try out the coupling caps next, but haven't done it yet as the sound was surprisingly good stock and with PJCCS.

 

[2wo]

instead of tiring to damp the tube, has anyone tried isolating it? I'm thinking dangling the tube, socket and all in a glass jar or lead lined Kyptonite proof vault or something. you get the idea...John     

 

[jrebman]

John,

Ah, you've spoiled my surprise .  Actually I was going to make a small plate to hold the tubes and as many of the passive parts as I can, then either hang it or float it from/on the top plate, but I'm also going to a slightly larger (8" x 10") chassis format, probably with a copper top plate.  That is the eventual plan -- I will most likely build it stock first and then gradually try things to get me where I want, which will be as the perfect partner to a second s.e.x. 2.1 amp I also plan to build.

-- Jim

 

[earwaxxer]

hummm.... Interesting ideas!

Mine is pretty much prefect. It is absolutely silent. Just to make sure that they are still tubes, I touch them every now and then to hear the crackles, hum, thumps etc. When I have friends over I touch the tube, when I'm getting things set up, just so everyone can have that nostalgic tube experience!

VUUUMP, VUUMP,...VUUMP, VUUMP - test,.... testing one, two.....

 

[4krow]

Eric, I found cheap Sorbothane rings that fit pretty well over the tubes. I have started out with two, one on the body of the tube, and one underneath on the underside of the tube socket. Haven't had much chance to even listen yet, but actually will have a lot of time on my hands now. I decided that I had just about enough of the college and resigned. O boy...

 

[earwaxxer]

Eric, I found cheap Sorbothane rings that fit pretty well over the tubes. I have started out with two, one on the body of the tube, and one underneath on the underside of the tube socket. Haven't had much chance to even listen yet, but actually will have a lot of time on my hands now. I decided that I had just about enough of the college and resigned. O boy...

Hey, I guess you and me both! - I quit my job a couple of weeks ago as well. Couldnt take it anymore. I will be plugging back in though. I'm an RN with 30yrs experience. Its just a matter of what I'm willing to put up with. Its fun to have more time to abscess about the kit though! I have switched out caps and inductors AGAIN in my maggies. Back to the paper/oils. Whatever! Could be worse. Fortunately my wife is working as an RN, so I can coast for a spell!
peace, love, dope = )  Eric

 

[galyons]

... Its fun to have more time to abscess about the kit though!

Better have the wife check out that abscess, not good! 

Cheers,
Geary

 

[earwaxxer]

LOL! I just realized myself that I used that word! - It fits though!

 

[coca]

Hey guys, there are many good ideas you have used to do some interesting mods on your quickies. I purchased mine some time ago, but have not had time to build it yet. In fact I was going to build it last week, and discovered that I have misplaced my plastic chassis plate, so for now, I am up the creek without a paddle. However, I have been trying to secure a piece of teflon sheet about 1/4 of an inch thick, and try to make a chassis plate from that. If that works out, who knows, the teflon may address some of the tube microphonic issues.
Another mod I often do on my preamps, is to eliminate the INPUT RCA's, and hard wire the interconnect directly to the vol. control. It really makes a sonic inprovement.
Thanks. Great stuff guys.

Bernie.

 

[Paul Birkeland]

Hello Bernie,

We do have some extra Quickie chassis plates at the office (which is rare, it can take me several weeks to make a batch), if you'd like to purchase an extra one.

-PB

 

[proud indian]

Eric,

What is an RN???

shreekant 


BTW, picked up some single malts from Dubai....... Ardbeg,Laphroaig, Glengoyne, Jula,Auchentosen and an Irish single called Connemera ( never tired an Irish before).  ;D ;D ;D

 

[earwaxxer]

Eric,

What is an RN???

shreekant 


BTW, picked up some single malts from Dubai....... Ardbeg,Laphroaig, Glengoyne, Jula,Auchentosen and an Irish single called Connemera ( never tired an Irish before).  ;D ;D ;D

Registered Nurse - Dude you are quite the jet setter! Hanging out, drinking single malts in Dubai! How are the hookers over there?

 

[4krow]

It IS not!  It means Real Nerd. 

What if you used a stiff sheet of dampening material? Or dampening material over teflon? I check a plate by tapping it while being held by the corner. Most materials ring.

 

[2wo]

I am serious about the glass jar. I was at IKEA, the other day, where most of my project cases come from  8).

And found this. http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40065867/  They have nice thick glass and a good seal.

I'm thinking, drill a hole in the lid. Hang the socket by its wires, or rig a nice suspension, poke in a thin plastic tube. Seal it up with some silicone seal.

Then suck the air out.
Isolate the tube without dampening it 

We don't need a perfect vacuum. Hook it up to your vacuum sealer, or do you have one of those brake bleeders. We're DIY guys, you'll think of something, though if your getting ready to fire the getter, call me ;D     

 

[proud indian]

Registered Nurse - Dude you are quite the jet setter! Hanging out, drinking single malts in Dubai! How are the hookers over there?
[/quote]

Well, on a Thursday night it is difficult to walk around. The theme has changed from Russian to African. You cant enter a bar or night club. Its that bad.
I was there in 2007 or 08, and the place has taken a dive since then, The place looks washed out and boaring.

shreekant

 

[corndog71]

Ok, I guess I can jump in here with my experiments.

I purchased the quickie with PJCCS but decided to build it stock first.  I was very impressed by how quiet it was.  It was instantly better than my modded Foreplay II.  The tubes provided sounded good but were very sensitive to my fingers and bumping the attached cables and rang easily with any vibration.  They do settle down after a couple of seconds and just get back to making music.  As good as it was I knew from many years of playing with my various Foreplay tweaks that there was room for improvement.  

PJCCS - Ah, now we're getting somewhere!  This made a very nice difference adding a bit better focus to the soundstage, tighter bass, and just a fuller sound.

Output Caps - After the power supply this is the most noticeable area of improvement.  

1. Sonicaps (Gen 1) - These brought much better resolution over the stock caps, more air between instruments, better dynamics, tighter and better defined bass.  These run on the slightly brighter side of neutral and so provide less of the tube warmth many people like.  If you like a leaner and closer to solid state sound then consider these.

2. Clarity Cap ESA Series - These are very interesting and unique caps.  Both detailed and dynamic but with a very warm overall sound.  This is particularly noticeable on the higher frequencies.  If you have bright sounding speakers then these may just be the ticket for you.  I really love these in my S.e.X. Amp.  I really liked them in my Quickie but was very curious about trying the next step up in Clarity's line up.

3. Clarity Cap MR Series - Holy &$%#!  My jaw hung, mouth agape, and I was just stunned at how much more information I was hearing!  Yes, you will pay a price for it but considering the low cost of the Quickie it's not too bad of a hit to the wallet.  One small caveat, they do take a few hundred hours to sound their best but even early on they were an immediate improvement over the ESA caps.  Older recordings seemed blown up in space and resolution.  Cliche as it sounds I heard stuff in familiar recordings that went previously unnoticed.  I could go on and on about these.

Vibration control - Initially I borrowed the wood base from my Foreplay II as the plates are the same size.  This certainly made my Quickie look nicer but did nothing to suppress vibration.  I happened to have some foam bricks used for shipping expensive servors handy so I cut one to just a little wider than the wood base.

But then I thought I'd go simpler.

That helped some but still not perfect.  Eventually I decided to splurge on a pair of Herbie's Tube Dampers.  Now we're getting somewhere.  At first I didn't really hear much of a difference.  Then I tried some different tubes with and without the damper rings and noticed that they did help cut down on the ringing.  I had to bend them smaller to get them to fit the tubes even though they were supposed to fit the 3S4.  Not a bad tweak for the money but not a necessity.  Unless you're like me and want to cover every base.

That's pretty much all I did with my stock Quickie.  Eventually I wanted to build an all out Quickie as I had lots of ideas on how to take the design further.

Here's a list of features on the Ultimate Quickie:
1. 3"x10"x17" Hammond aluminum box and lid
2. a sheet of Dynamat Extreme
3. Erse Pulse X film caps for the power supply
4. Goldpoint selector switch for switching the signal and ground of each input
5. PRP Resistors in the power supply
6. Two D-Cell holders per channel wired in parallel for longer play time
7. 16AWG wire for power supply connections (I know, total overkill here! ;D)
8. Homegrownaudio 22AWG cotton-insulated and teflon-insulated silver wire for signal
9. Three Power Sonic rechargeable 12V/5Ah SLA batteries for 36VDC supply
10. PEC 100K Volume Pots

With the previously mentioned Clarity MR caps this turned into quite the project.  Since all of this came together at once it's hard to say where improvements came from.  Well, the Dynamat really cuts down on ringing from the tubes as does the boxed design.  Now my fingers don't get close to the tubes when I'm  fiddling with any of the controls.  I don't bump into the cables anymore since they're all in the back which also helps avoid ringing.  I really think the film caps cleaned up the sound vs. the stock electrolytics.  The music seems more lifelike and faster.  In the end I think it sounds fantastic and well worth my efforts.  

 

[earwaxxer]

thanks Rob for the comprehensive update and impressions!

The Clarity Cap MR's are certainly a great cap. When I get a job I might spring for some. Curious you should mention the gauge of wire on the power supply connection. I actually used some old Audioquest type 4 wire on my power supply. I 'think' it improved the sound! This shit is crazy, so I dont admit to it much. So be it! - I like it!