My take on the BeePre
- Thread starter johnsonad
- Start date
johnsonad
New member
Is your heart set on silver? Do you run all silver through your system already? I've always considered wire as a method of tone control in some respect and could never justify or afford an all silver system. CAT 5 is suprisingly good cable. At least one member here used it for his interconnects and I dream of owning a system as nice as his someday.
- well not exactly. My amp is wired with silver but lacks silver opt's etc. I've yet to play around with silver for the wide band driver cabling, my current drivers i most interested in voice coils are not silver although i have others that are.
I don't think Cat 5 is bad either. Been using both half of a Cat 5 plenum wire per - & +, as well as a single strand per of Cat 5 plenum wire for the speaker cables more then the Kimber 8tc i have. Only thats easy to change, doubt i'd ever bother rewiring the bee if i didn't have to for other reasons.
I don't think Cat 5 is bad either. Been using both half of a Cat 5 plenum wire per - & +, as well as a single strand per of Cat 5 plenum wire for the speaker cables more then the Kimber 8tc i have. Only thats easy to change, doubt i'd ever bother rewiring the bee if i didn't have to for other reasons.
tsingle999
New member
In my limited experience i have always preferred the sound of copper over silver. Copper seems to help the low end and silver the high end from the experiments i've tried.
johnsonad
New member
After capacitor experiments in my S.E.X. amp and a thread stating I could use a lower valued output cap, today I replaced the 10uF Audiocaps with a pair of 5 uF Auicaps I had sitting around. These will need break in but from the beginning there seems to be more top end and air than before. I'm gojng to run them in 100 hours and report back. My hope is that they will allow me to get the EML's back in and even out what was missing before.
johnsonad
New member
Time for some updates on the BeePre project. I've been having fun with tubes and output capacitors. The tubes I'll rank based on personal and system preference which coincides with a buddy who did the listening tests with me over the course of a months worth of Saturdays.
1. EML 300B
2. EH 300B Gold Grid
3. Russian 6C4C
4. Sovetek 6B4G
5. TJ 300B mesh plates
There is just something special about these EML's. Both Mike and I felt mesmerized every time we put them back in the system. They are the tube for me (so far!). Maybe I'll try the EML 300B mesh plate once PJ figures out the filament supply for 1.5 amps. Now getting them to the correct filament voltage took significant trial and error. With the Parts Connexion sale and a few more Mills values I finally got them within less than 1%. For my BeePre this took a 27 Ohm (4.97v) and a 33 Ohm (4.99v) resistor. These tubes took a good 100 hours to sound nice so if you have a pair sitting around or are thinking of taking the plunge, let them burn in!
Cap rolling can have a significant effect also. So far in full values I've tried the Audiocap 10uF and some Russian PIO's 12uF. I've bypassed them with ClarityCap 1uF, Russian FT-1 0.01uF, Russian FT-2 0.1uF and Russian SSG-3 0.1uF caps. I also briefly tried a pair of Auricap 5uF which didn't work out that well into a 10k Ohm load impedance. Today I put in a pair of Jupiter 10uF caps which still need to break in. I've found the Audiocaps to be rolled off but to do well with voices and the lower mid range. There is just something not quite right about them. Byassing did change the sound but not enough to give a complete package. Don't get me wrong, I like the sound of the Audiocaps and they have spent longer in the BeePre than any other cap so far. The PIO's were in for a week. I bypassed them with all of the Russian teflons and the silver mica caps. They sounded better on their own and quite good. They would have stayed longer if the Jupiter's didn't arrive. Maybe not the end all be all in detail or dynamics but very nice over all and more correct than the Audiocaps. The Jupiter's have a couple of hours on them so far but I can tell already they are going to be special. They took a little work to fit and to isolate them from the heat sinks but so far so good. FYI, I emailed Jupiter about the flat stack HT caps and they are conservatively rated at 70 C, 158 F.
I continue to be ever impressed by the BeePre. This the best preamp I've owned to date. More to follow
1. EML 300B
2. EH 300B Gold Grid
3. Russian 6C4C
4. Sovetek 6B4G
5. TJ 300B mesh plates
There is just something special about these EML's. Both Mike and I felt mesmerized every time we put them back in the system. They are the tube for me (so far!). Maybe I'll try the EML 300B mesh plate once PJ figures out the filament supply for 1.5 amps. Now getting them to the correct filament voltage took significant trial and error. With the Parts Connexion sale and a few more Mills values I finally got them within less than 1%. For my BeePre this took a 27 Ohm (4.97v) and a 33 Ohm (4.99v) resistor. These tubes took a good 100 hours to sound nice so if you have a pair sitting around or are thinking of taking the plunge, let them burn in!
Cap rolling can have a significant effect also. So far in full values I've tried the Audiocap 10uF and some Russian PIO's 12uF. I've bypassed them with ClarityCap 1uF, Russian FT-1 0.01uF, Russian FT-2 0.1uF and Russian SSG-3 0.1uF caps. I also briefly tried a pair of Auricap 5uF which didn't work out that well into a 10k Ohm load impedance. Today I put in a pair of Jupiter 10uF caps which still need to break in. I've found the Audiocaps to be rolled off but to do well with voices and the lower mid range. There is just something not quite right about them. Byassing did change the sound but not enough to give a complete package. Don't get me wrong, I like the sound of the Audiocaps and they have spent longer in the BeePre than any other cap so far. The PIO's were in for a week. I bypassed them with all of the Russian teflons and the silver mica caps. They sounded better on their own and quite good. They would have stayed longer if the Jupiter's didn't arrive. Maybe not the end all be all in detail or dynamics but very nice over all and more correct than the Audiocaps. The Jupiter's have a couple of hours on them so far but I can tell already they are going to be special. They took a little work to fit and to isolate them from the heat sinks but so far so good. FYI, I emailed Jupiter about the flat stack HT caps and they are conservatively rated at 70 C, 158 F.
I continue to be ever impressed by the BeePre. This the best preamp I've owned to date. More to follow
johnsonad
New member
Thanks Eric!
Another topic to add and that's microphonics. In my experice so far I've found the best sound is achieved by the lowest microphonic tube. So far the best I've experienced is the 6c4c. I can bang hard on the deck plate with very little resonance or ringing to the speakers (lead weights only). Second are the EML's. The lead rings, Herbies dampeners and sorbathane footers all help to some degree. I've got some Tenderfeet and other rings on order to see if they help anymore then what I already have. This design is so sensitive that to my ears, the more you can lessen the ring, the better the overall sound. If you look at my ranking, I put the EH above the 6c4c and that's so far due to the lack of break in of the tubes. The EH's have a horrible ring but somehow they still sound great. More to follow as the 6c4c's break in along with the Jupiter's.
Another topic to add and that's microphonics. In my experice so far I've found the best sound is achieved by the lowest microphonic tube. So far the best I've experienced is the 6c4c. I can bang hard on the deck plate with very little resonance or ringing to the speakers (lead weights only). Second are the EML's. The lead rings, Herbies dampeners and sorbathane footers all help to some degree. I've got some Tenderfeet and other rings on order to see if they help anymore then what I already have. This design is so sensitive that to my ears, the more you can lessen the ring, the better the overall sound. If you look at my ranking, I put the EH above the 6c4c and that's so far due to the lack of break in of the tubes. The EH's have a horrible ring but somehow they still sound great. More to follow as the 6c4c's break in along with the Jupiter's.
Paul Joppa
Moderator
Yeah, the importance of microphonics is a really curious issue. We sidelined the Quickie for years because of them, based on just a few minutes listening. But once we did more listening and actually put it out there everyone (us included) started to hear it's virtues as well. BeePre was the other way around; we all agreed it had the magic in spite of its microphonics.
Are microphonics, like ultra-low measured distortion, another false god of our idolatry? :^)
Are microphonics, like ultra-low measured distortion, another false god of our idolatry? :^)
johnsonad
New member
I'm not sure at this point Paul. I will say that when microphonics are low, I hear more of and deeper into the music. Remember that when I first fired up my BeePre I could talk a foot away from the tubes and it would ring through the speakers.
It wasn't a turn key perfect design for my system (too much gain) but man can it sound good If you are willing to do a little trial and error. I still feel this is a home run for the Bottlehead team. My system wows all that have heard it and I only nit pick because I'm in front of it everyday.
It wasn't a turn key perfect design for my system (too much gain) but man can it sound good If you are willing to do a little trial and error. I still feel this is a home run for the Bottlehead team. My system wows all that have heard it and I only nit pick because I'm in front of it everyday.
johnsonad
New member
This morning I got around to measuring top plate temperature differences with tubes. I used my trusty kitchen thermometer and rested it on the chassis plate front to back near the right tube. With the 6c4c which draws 1 amp the plate stays at 110 F. With the EML 300B which supposedly draw 1.3 amps, it raises to 118 F. The house temp is set at 73 F.
johnsonad
New member
I can do that.
Today I listened to the Jupiter's at the 100 hour mark and feel that they have a while to go still. I'm going to pull them out and put them in the burn in rig for a few weeks tomorrow. I contacted Chris at Jupiter and he said they can take a while in low output usage such as in the BeePre.
For the Jupiter's I had to add about 3 inches of wire to get them to reach. Then I put spacer insulators against the cap and let them gravity hang against the heat sinks. It worked better than expected and they stay just warm to the touch when you reach underneath the amp.
I also received some Herbie's Tender Feet (tall, soft) today and put them to use. I didn't notice any sound difference but they sure look better and raise the BeePre enough to drop the top plate measured temp by one degree.
Today I listened to the Jupiter's at the 100 hour mark and feel that they have a while to go still. I'm going to pull them out and put them in the burn in rig for a few weeks tomorrow. I contacted Chris at Jupiter and he said they can take a while in low output usage such as in the BeePre.
For the Jupiter's I had to add about 3 inches of wire to get them to reach. Then I put spacer insulators against the cap and let them gravity hang against the heat sinks. It worked better than expected and they stay just warm to the touch when you reach underneath the amp.
I also received some Herbie's Tender Feet (tall, soft) today and put them to use. I didn't notice any sound difference but they sure look better and raise the BeePre enough to drop the top plate measured temp by one degree.
johnsonad
New member
While the Jupiter's are burning in, I put back in a pair of caps that caught my attention but were not given a fair chance do to the arrive of the Jupiter's. They are a Russian KBG MN PIO caps. To get the 10uF or greater value with the caps I had on hand I had to parallel a couple of 6uF. These had been previously burned in and sounded great from the beginning. Really, these sound great and seem to be the sound I was looking for in combination with the EML 300B's. I'm a little afraid that when the Jupiter's are ready, I'm not going to like them as much as these Ruskies.
Sound changes which are system and user preference based are hard for me to describe. The KBG's have great attack and decay of notes, sounds are presented in a nice dark background, there is plenty of ambient room info (though not as much as others I've tried). My favorite part is the tone. Music is a little rounder or more whole, almost palpable. Piano notes decay and you feel them linger. Female voices are inviting. Basically I feel more emotionally involved when using this combo of KBG's and EML tubes.
I held off posting on these until I secured a pair of 10uF caps and a few just popped up on the ePay (no association of course). They are cheap and worth giving a try but I'll warn you ahead of time, they don't fit. I have them on foot long leads sitting to the sides of the preamp.
Second, an update on tubes. The EML's are the sound for me. I'm keeping a pair of 6C4C as they will work with the modified current settings needed for the EML's and offer a slightly brighter sound for those times I need reminding how good the EML's are (to my ears).
Lastly, once I'm finished goofing around with capacitors, I'm considering the choke mod that Xavier did and listen for any change for the better.
Sound changes which are system and user preference based are hard for me to describe. The KBG's have great attack and decay of notes, sounds are presented in a nice dark background, there is plenty of ambient room info (though not as much as others I've tried). My favorite part is the tone. Music is a little rounder or more whole, almost palpable. Piano notes decay and you feel them linger. Female voices are inviting. Basically I feel more emotionally involved when using this combo of KBG's and EML tubes.
I held off posting on these until I secured a pair of 10uF caps and a few just popped up on the ePay (no association of course). They are cheap and worth giving a try but I'll warn you ahead of time, they don't fit. I have them on foot long leads sitting to the sides of the preamp.
Second, an update on tubes. The EML's are the sound for me. I'm keeping a pair of 6C4C as they will work with the modified current settings needed for the EML's and offer a slightly brighter sound for those times I need reminding how good the EML's are (to my ears).
Lastly, once I'm finished goofing around with capacitors, I'm considering the choke mod that Xavier did and listen for any change for the better.
