Mr. Lin's Foreplay III and ongoing modifications...

Mr. Lin

New member
I purchased the FP III kit in 2006, and for a variety of reasons I won't get into here, I didn't get around to building it until about a month ago.  Originally I only got the FP III to use with the Paramour IIs (which I've just finished but not yet fired up), and I have to say this thing performs well beyond what I was anticipating, I'm very happy with it.  It's currently being used in a headphone setup, between a Naim CD player and Pro-Ject Head Box SE headphone amp, with Grado 325i headphones.  

These first two pictures are just so you can see the type of finish I chose for the FP base.  Nothing special.  I plan to paint the bases for the Paramours.  The second picture shows the Sylvania OD3 tube I replaced the Ratheon with, since I can't stand that brown plastic case around the tube.  I now have Herbie's tube dampers on all three tubes, although you only see them on the 12AU7 tubes in the second picture here.  

rsz_pa114220.jpg


rsz_pa174248.jpg


Before I get into the modifications I'll just note that I use a Weller WD1 soldering station, and love it.  I also now refuse to use any kind of solder other than Cardas Quadeutectic.

I changed out parts in three different areas after about four or five days of listening to the stock FP III.  First, I replaced the stock blue film resistors across the outputs with Takman carbon film resistors - I know, a mortal sin, and if that sends chills up your spine you might not want to read further :)

c75321.jpg


c30426.jpg


To continue on this path of heresy, I installed two Kiwame carbon film resistors in the following places, from the coupling caps to ground (they're the green ones):

c24506.jpg


c95237.jpg


At this point I'll note I did not perceive any increase in noise whatsoever, despite the warnings that carbon film resistors are notoriously noisy.  In fact, the FP III surprised me with its silence as well as its excellent performance.  I could swear the Kiwame resistors resulted in a distinctly warmer sound, especially in the lower midrange.  But it's impossible to know for sure given the time that elapsed between hearing the stock resistors and installing, then listening to, the new Kiwame resistors.

Next I replaced the .1uf cap across the OD3 tube with a modern production Sprague "Orange Drop" .1uf cap I had on hand from an older project.  This was a bit of a hassle as the leads on these caps are very large gauge and hard to work with in tight spaces.  This picture shows the whole thing at that point, I didn't take any closeup shots of the Sprague cap.  Whether or not this new cap made any difference in sound quality, I can't tell you:

c26843.jpg


Next up:  I like to attend to the small things, irrelevant though they may ultimately be - one never knows.  Therefore I replaced the four carbon comp. resistors across the 12AU7 sockets with Riken carbon comp. models, which have gold-plated copper leads.  If nothing else, they sure look cool!

c64954.jpg


rsz_pa244295.jpg


Now we'll take a break so I can go re-size the newest, and arguably most interesting and significant, pictures of the bunch, which will include upgraded signal path caps.


...
 
Here you can see I've replaced two of the padding resistors with 18k ohm Takman carbon film versions.  Again, despite the warnings about potential noise, I hear none using these.  I prefer the lower resistance so I can turn up the gain on the FP III and keep the volume on the Pro-Ject headphone amp low.  Sounds wonderful. 

I intend to replace a different input pair with some tantalum resistors in the near future. 

rsz_pa274315.jpg


rsz_pa274317.jpg



...
 
Very nice!  Those tube dampers are a bit unusual.  Did you make them?

I just finished an FPIII myself and I hope that you are enjoying yours as much as I love mine.  I thought I would never get through the build on the input section.  If something ever happened to mine, I think I would buy two more just to be safe.



 
And now on to the really good stuff - but first, one more minor alteration:  When I ordered all these boutique resistors I threw in a Jupiter "Vintage Tone" aluminum foil and mylar .1uf cap for the OD3 tube, just because it was inexpensive and I thought it would be fun to play around with.  Normally I'd never go for something labeled "vintage tone," since that's exactly the opposite of the sonic presentation I prefer, but I did it anyway.  Don't know if there was any difference between the Jupiter and the Sprague:

rsz_pa264309.jpg


I struggled with the choice between the lauded Obbligato film caps and Jantzen, the latter a Danish brand I've successfully used in a speaker crossover modification.  Having been impressed with the quality of the Jantzen for the price, and considering it was mere dollars more than the same value Obbligato, I opted for the Jantzen "Superior Z-cap," which has 18 awg solid copper leads and a claimed tolerance of + or - 2%.  According to the manufacturer: "These caps are constructed of a specially wound metallized polypropylene to minimize inner vibration."  They offer a silver version, but apparently the only difference is that the leads are solid silver instead of copper, so I stuck with the less expensive copper version.  

This was an easy installation, of course, although they're much larger than the stock film caps (pretty much inevitable with boutique caps it seems).  I have a roll of rather expensive Teflon tape with a silicone adhesive that I normally use when making cables, and I applied a piece of this tape to each cap to separate it from nearby conductive parts and components.  I figure that theoretically this would add additional damping to the capacitor cases.  The Teflon tape is visible in the third and fourth pictures below:

rsz_pa294344.jpg


rsz_pa294339.jpg


rsz_1pa294340.jpg


rsz_1pa294343.jpg


As of right now, the addition of these Jantzen capacitors has yielded the biggest and best improvement in the sound I get from the FP III.  I touched upon this in a thread in the FP III forum the night I installed them - basically it comes down to more of everything that's desirable, and in summary, resolution is significantly enhanced.  Everything sounds much clearer, and more details of the music are now audible.  I certainly recommend these if anyone is looking for a good cap for this place in their FP III.  

I am still curious about those Obbligatos.  I know they're reputable, and Bottlehead forum member Grainger has mentioned more than once how happy he is with them.  Perhaps I'll try those out with my Paramours, down the road.


...
 
porcupunctis said:
Very nice!  Those tube dampers are a bit unusual.  Did you make them?

I just finished an FPIII myself and I hope that you are enjoying yours as much as I love mine.  I thought I would never get through the build on the input section.  If something ever happened to mine, I think I would buy two more just to be safe.

Thank you!  The tube dampers are made by Herbie's Audio Lab.  He makes all kinds of damping stuff for hi-fi audio, most famously the tube dampers, and his "Way Cool" turntable mat, which I also use.  They're not cheap, but then again, compared to other alternatives, they're a good deal.  I originally bought the dampers I'm now using on the FP for my Wright 200C tube phono preamp.

Yes I really am enjoying my FP III, more than I thought I would.  I know some parts of the build were a bit tedious, the Paramours are much easier by comparison.  One of my least favorite parts was those rectifier diodes in the power supply, with their massive leads that just didn't want to bend!
 
And finally, just two more things.  Before I get to those, I'll just note that all the interconnects I use are designed and built by me, something I started doing years ago after trying all manner of esoteric boutique after-market interconnects by the usual suspects.  However, I still use "brand name" power cords.  

It goes like this from wall to FP III:
Oyaide SWO-XXX outlet (yes, an after-market wall outlet :) )
A Shunyata Diamondback power cord goes from wall outlet to a PS Audio "Juice Bar II" outlet center, which has no surge protection, filtering, etc - just copper buss bars from outlet to outlet.  
A Cardas Golden (not Reference, the one just below it) power cord, which, based on listening tests, seems to be the best I have.
For the source I use either another Shunyata Diamondback, or a Grover Huffman power cable (which utilizes copper and silver ribbons).

I have a great selection of NOS 12AU7 tubes to choose from, almost all from Upscale Audio.  So far I prefer the 1965 Radiotechnique 12AU7, originally made for the French military signal corps.  This one has the same open and bright (in a good way) top-end it's advertised to by Upscale, and is strong all around.  The infamous RCA "clear tops" also work quite well, as do the NOS Siemens Rohre tubes, the latter also from Upscale.  

Ok - back to the last couple minor things I've changed.  First, as much as I love the way those Kiwame resistors look (the green ones seen above), I decided to replace them with a pair of Shinkoh tantalum resistors.  That would be the purple-ish one toward the right of the other resistors in this picture:

rsz_pa314353.jpg


rsz_pa314357.jpg


Also, I realized a HiFi Tuning Silver Star fuse I have in another headphone amp is the correct value for the FP III, so I popped that in a few nights ago. As with a CD player in the past, the fuse seems to (inexplicably) result in a bigger, more open sound.  I will note these Silver Star fuses didn't seem to produce an audible change in another integrated amp I've tried them in before, so I guess I got lucky with the FP.  I also applied some Mapleshade Audio "Silclear" contact enhancer to the fuse caps.  Silclear is basically a food-grade grease with microscopic silver platelets in it.  I also apply it to all tube pins in my system.  Additionally, I put Cardas Myrtlewood blocks under the FP, and Cardas RCA caps on unused RCA sockets to (hopefully) reduce noise.  Yes, I naively spent a small fortune on the Cardas RCA caps, not knowing at the time that you can buy the same things by a "no-name" brand for a small fraction of the price.  Live and learn.

SilverStarfuse.jpg


And finally, I'll wrap this up with a shot of the pleasantly warm glow of the FP III as it currently looks in the dark.  Thanks for reading!

glow.jpg



...
 
Carbon composition resistors are the ones that are noisy, and that's mostly just when they have DC current going through them. Their other disadvantage is they are prone to drift in value with age. Carbon film is considered much more stable, and only slightly at risk of producing noise with DC current. Since all of your replacements have been in places with no DC current, they are just fine. The grid stoppers (the four 220 ohm ones) are in a circuit position where drift in value is not important, even a 50% change in resistance will have no discernible effect. And of course, all these problems with resistors are much less if the resistor is well made.

The resistors with DC current are the four 22.1K load resistors. The best replacement is of course the current sources in the Extended kit, but with the stock kit the ideal would be wirewound, preferably non-inductive. A tolerance of 5% is quite acceptable here.

We did early on try some 0.056uF Russian teflon caps across the 0D3 and thought it made a noticeable improvement.
 
Paul thank you, I appreciate your feedback and clarification of certain things I was apparently a bit confused about.  I have a basic knowledge and understanding of electricity and electronics, but no formal education in that area, and I find the sort of information you've just provided invaluable.  It's a learning experience for me, not just about the music.  

So that makes sense - I was wondering why certain DIY sites advocated the use of carbon film resistors in tube amps when you'd said they're noise-prone, but it turns out I just didn't understand exactly what you were telling me.  So I suppose the tight tolerances of the Riken carbon comp resistors are basically unnecessary in this application. But like I said, they look cool. ;)

I have a couple of those Soviet-surplus Teflon caps - .1uf value - but they're huge, first of all, and second, I'm probably going to end up putting them in my Paramours at some point.  Until that time they're on the Hagtech Frybaby, and will probably stay there for about a month.
 
One of the salient features of carbon film resistors is that they can handle pretty high voltages. It's possible to find them with ratings of 500-750VDC. That's why we use them as bleeders in our power supplies.
 
A very interesting read indeed. Just one note, I do believe that the Rikens with the gold plated leads are carbon film and not carbon comp. A very high quality resistor, nontheless.

Bernie.
 
PJ has very specific reasons for using Carbon Comp (suppressing possible oscillations as grid and plate stoppers), Metal Film (loads, lower noise than CF) and Carbon Film (bleeder resistance).

I don't remember a carbon composition resistor being used for anything except a suppressor.
 
Lovely job Mr. Lin, I really enjoy seeing all the boutique parts in your build. I've been tempted by those beautiful red Jantzen caps (they got a good write up on Humble Homemade HiFi), but so far I've just played it safe and went with Obbligatos / Mundorfs or Ampohms, all of which I have gotten good results with. As PJ stated, people avoid the carbon comps due to noise and drifting which takes place over the years. Carbon films, especially the Kiwames, can get close to that "sweet warmth" of carbon comps without the issues mentioned. I can be a good idea to figure out if a resistor is in the signal path before you replace it, as boutique parts are not cheap and you want to maximize your investment, but the shotgun approach works too ;)

Do you plan on any additional upgrades? Perhaps a stepped attenuator or a choke in the power supply? :D
 
I will suggest tantalum resistors if one is looking for the best sonics in the signal path.
 
I've seen those green Kiwame resistors pop up in various discussions, and I've eyeballed them as a possibility for when I upgrade my gear. It sounds like the warnings about increased thermal/shot noise don't quite hold true (the manufacturer even claims that these are quieter than metal films, though I would be skeptical of such a claim). However, I wonder about excessive warmth or a "veiling" of the sound. Metal films are supposed to be more transparent. To the OP (Mr. Lin): the Kiwames were swapped out of your amp. Any strong feelings about them?

Tantalums seem like the ideal choice, but they are rather expensive....
 
Very nice build, Mr. Lin!  The boutique parts really set it apart from other builds.  I'm also enjoying the discussion regarding resistors.  I recently tried both the Kiwame "greens" and PRP "reds" (carbon film) in my Stereomour.  I settled on the PRPs as I felt they were a little more transparent. Here are my comments on the two resistors from the Stereomour thread:

InfernoSTi said:
Just a quick update: I switched out my 100K resistors on the RCA input jacks to red bodied PRP resistors (Precsion Resistive Products 9372 audio series).  These are a little more "clear" and a little less "soft" but who can really say with this kind of tweak!  I just wanted to try out a second high quality resistor to see what I thought.  I can recommend the Kiwame "greens" if you like a smooth, groovy kind of sound and the PRP "reds" if you like a clean, precise kind of sound.  Both sound great, by the way...they just lean in different directions to my ear.

I'm enjoying this thread very much!

John
 
Pardon my slowness in responding, I haven't been on the internet as much for the last few days.

My question at this point - does anyone know of some other places where replacing the resistors might possibly be beneficial?  Aside from the Sweetest Whispers, as you all might have noticed I've left those stock for now.  

I thank all of you for the kind words.  Now I'll address some of the individual comments and questions:

HF9 said:
Lovely job Mr. Lin, I really enjoy seeing all the boutique parts in your build. I've been tempted by those beautiful red Jantzen caps (they got a good write up on Humble Homemade HiFi), but so far I've just played it safe and went with Obbligatos / Mundorfs or Ampohms, all of which I have gotten good results with. As PJ stated, people avoid the carbon comps due to noise and drifting which takes place over the years. Carbon films, especially the Kiwames, can get close to that "sweet warmth" of carbon comps without the issues mentioned. I can be a good idea to figure out if a resistor is in the signal path before you replace it, as boutique parts are not cheap and you want to maximize your investment, but the shotgun approach works too ;)

Do you plan on any additional upgrades? Perhaps a stepped attenuator or a choke in the power supply? :D

Sometime down the line I would like to try one of the more significant types of upgrades.  Right now I don't know much about the area of upgrading to better stepped attenuators, but I will get to it, and I don't know anything at all about putting a choke in the power supply.  

I'm doing what's described and pictured in this thread since I can't afford anything much more expensive at the moment, and for me it's a lot of fun.  I'm confident people on this forum are very empathetic about that last part!  And although I'll probably be saying this a lot on the Bottlehead forum - I sure am glad I bought the kits years ago when I was able to afford them, even though I'm only now using them.

Doc B. said:
I will suggest tantalum resistors if one is looking for the best sonics in the signal path.

I'm trying those too, one example obviously being the Shinkoh ones in those last pictures, with which I've replaced the Kiwames.

Dr. Toobz said:
I've seen those green Kiwame resistors pop up in various discussions, and I've eyeballed them as a possibility for when I upgrade my gear. It sounds like the warnings about increased thermal/shot noise don't quite hold true (the manufacturer even claims that these are quieter than metal films, though I would be skeptical of such a claim). However, I wonder about excessive warmth or a "veiling" of the sound. Metal films are supposed to be more transparent. To the OP (Mr. Lin): the Kiwames were swapped out of your amp. Any strong feelings about them?

Tantalums seem like the ideal choice, but they are rather expensive....

Well I'd like to be able to tell you I have much of a valid opinion on the results I may or may not have gotten with the Kiwames (that almost sounds like a statement made with the oversight of a lawyer...), but since there's a significant amount of time between removing the old resistors and installing the new, and also because I didn't use them for long to see if I noticed things over a longer period of time (like a week or two), I can't.  Like I said, I thought the sound got a little sweeter and warmer, but I could have been fooling myself.  I'm also not sure if where I put them is a place in the circuit where one would ever be likely to hear possible changes between resistors.  

As for the tantalums being expensive - yes relatively speaking they certainly are, but I placed one order for everything seen here all at once (and more than what's in this thread that I haven't used yet either), so adding a couple $3-$4.00 resistors to the tab wasn't a big deal.  And many brands/models were less expensive, a lot less in fact.  But I would be hesitant to put these in a circuit where I'd need something like 30 or 40 of them!

InfernoSTi said:
Very nice build, Mr. Lin!  The boutique parts really set it apart from other builds.  I'm also enjoying the discussion regarding resistors.  I recently tried both the Kiwame "greens" and PRP "reds" (carbon film) in my Stereomour.  I settled on the PRPs as I felt they were a little more transparent. Here are my comments on the two resistors from the Stereomour thread:

InfernoSTi said:
Just a quick update: I switched out my 100K resistors on the RCA input jacks to red bodied PRP resistors (Precsion Resistive Products 9372 audio series).  These are a little more "clear" and a little less "soft" but who can really say with this kind of tweak!  I just wanted to try out a second high quality resistor to see what I thought.  I can recommend the Kiwame "greens" if you like a smooth, groovy kind of sound and the PRP "reds" if you like a clean, precise kind of sound.  Both sound great, by the way...they just lean in different directions to my ear.

I'm enjoying this thread very much!

John

Thanks for the quote from your other thread John, that information is certainly interesting to me.  I actually have a pair of PRP resistors that were part of the above-mentioned purchase, but I'm going to eventually use them in my Wright 200C tube phono preamp, in order to change the input impedance from 47k ohms to something much lower for a MC cartridge I have.  They (PRP) certainly claim extremely tight tolerances for their resistors.  

John Roman said:
Well documented Mr. Linn,
Great pic's! For me "seeing" what your talking about really helps.

I'm that way too, that's why I appreciated the manuals for the FP III and Paramours, for example.  Really glad you enjoyed it!
 
David,

Sorry but 17 pretty long posts into the thread I'm not inclined to read all of them again I did before but have slept since then erasing some of my memory.  The FP III is a serious upgrade from the FP 2.  Odd we used Arabic numbers for the first two and Roman numerals for the third.... And I digress, again.

Of course you should consider the Extended upgrade for a great number of reasons.  The first is it replaces 4 resistors.  That is not as simple a statement as it seems.  Those four resistors are not linear in their function because of where they are in the circuit.  Better resistors are a 10% gain compared to the C4S circuit they are replaced with.

The Extended also goes all the way to a fully dual mono power supply for the high voltage (B+).  One channel can not interact with the other as voltage and current are needed by each channel. 

Each channel's B+ is regulated by one of the triodes in the new tube supplied that replaces the 0D3.  Both channels have soft recovery diodes feeding a CRCRC filter.

And finally they include the most favorite output caps, Auricaps. 

There are other spots for upgrades those being the (i'm pretty sure) previously mentioned resistors in the signal path.  The Sweetest Whispers or a DACT or clone stepped attenuator.  I prefer the S5 for simplicity - only two resistors in the signal path per channel at a time.

S5 Link:

http://www.siteswithstyle.com/VoltSecond/12_posistion_shunt/12_Position_Pure_Shunt.html

This man knows noise problems and can really fix them.  I suggest consuming that page.

The choke in the power supply has lower impact after the Extended upgrade but is a nice addition before the Extended upgrade.  There is no reason to remove it when going to the Extended.  So since a Hammond 155J is cheaper than the Extended you might go with it first.
 
Back
Top