Linux Music Servers
- Thread starter Natural Sound
- Start date
Tom,
I decided to order an alix 2d2 board, enclosure and CF card (actually two of each) as I want to use these in my bedroom headphone system and our living room system.
I traded a guy a dac I had for a DSpeaker anti-mode DSP/dac/preamp/headphone amp for the media room system, which I need to use one mac mini down there (for video as well as tunes). Then I can use the alix boxes with my iFi and micromega dacs -- which are both 24/192.
Anyway, the dsp thing is way out of character for me, but that room is going to be really difficult so the DSP may be at least part of the answer -- the fact that I can plug all sources I have into it, use it as a preamp (which means building the steromour as a power amp) and it is remote controlled and has a headphone out could make it the perfect solution.
So, no need for any updates on the raspberry pie -- unless you want to.
-- Jim
I decided to order an alix 2d2 board, enclosure and CF card (actually two of each) as I want to use these in my bedroom headphone system and our living room system.
I traded a guy a dac I had for a DSpeaker anti-mode DSP/dac/preamp/headphone amp for the media room system, which I need to use one mac mini down there (for video as well as tunes). Then I can use the alix boxes with my iFi and micromega dacs -- which are both 24/192.
Anyway, the dsp thing is way out of character for me, but that room is going to be really difficult so the DSP may be at least part of the answer -- the fact that I can plug all sources I have into it, use it as a preamp (which means building the steromour as a power amp) and it is remote controlled and has a headphone out could make it the perfect solution.
So, no need for any updates on the raspberry pie -- unless you want to.
-- Jim
Natural Sound
New member
Jim R. said:
No, not yet. But it looks like someone already compiled an image to do just that. http://www.raspyfi.com/raspyfi-quick-start-guide/
Hi Tom,
Very interesting -- after parusing that site a bit I just had to go and order a raspberrypie starter kit. I think that with a couple tricks I may be able to build a very small, self-contained music player with dac, storage drive and wireless control interface based on the revision B board, and not use usb for both the storage drive and dac interface... we'll see, but the gears are spinning ;_).
-- Jim
Very interesting -- after parusing that site a bit I just had to go and order a raspberrypie starter kit. I think that with a couple tricks I may be able to build a very small, self-contained music player with dac, storage drive and wireless control interface based on the revision B board, and not use usb for both the storage drive and dac interface... we'll see, but the gears are spinning ;_).
-- Jim
Natural Sound
New member
BNAL said:
Voyage MPD is tried, true and very stable. The Raspberry Pi stuff is still new and will probably have bugs. You should probably stick with Voyage MPD for now.
PS: You have a PM.
So, raspberry pie aside, I'm also very much planning on building an alix or two. In fact, I've been doing a little thinking on how to get the alix to work as a more or less state of the art usb dac server, because all my dacs are, and are likely to be, usb preferred, or usb-only inputs. It looks like it may be possible to use one of the PCI express headers on the alix board with a pci express to pci-mini adaptor and then connect one of the SOTM usb ports to that, add a couple of good linear regulated supplies, and feed the alix with a NAS over ethernet, and have something very special. I've found a couple of the necessary bridges, but no idea what the pricing on them is, and the SOTM card is not cheap at $360, but even still, this could end up being somewhat, if not a lot, less expensive than the mac mini based solution, would be totally silent, use hardly any power, and has the potential for truly state of the art streaming to any usb dac.
The SOTM card also has a switch for turning off the 5v coming out of the usb port, so you can experiment with this and if your dac does not need the 5v supply, and will work without it having it present on the incoming usb connection, you also just took the quality up another notch or so, maybe more. Of course this won't fit in the standard alix enclosures, but that's a minor inconvenience.
So, that's the thought for the day -- no idea if this will really work or not, and how much hacking and tweaking will be involved, but to me it seems like a verry worthwhile experiment, especially if it can outperform the mac mini based approach -- which I certainly can't complain about at this point. But with the alix, it's dead silent, has no video or keyboard interface, lots and lots of typical linux os processes can be shutdown, the kernel stripped to the bare essentials, MPD installed and your favorite smartphone, tablet, and even other devices can be used for remote control.
Anybody esle on board for this experiment?
-- Jim
The SOTM card also has a switch for turning off the 5v coming out of the usb port, so you can experiment with this and if your dac does not need the 5v supply, and will work without it having it present on the incoming usb connection, you also just took the quality up another notch or so, maybe more. Of course this won't fit in the standard alix enclosures, but that's a minor inconvenience.
So, that's the thought for the day -- no idea if this will really work or not, and how much hacking and tweaking will be involved, but to me it seems like a verry worthwhile experiment, especially if it can outperform the mac mini based approach -- which I certainly can't complain about at this point. But with the alix, it's dead silent, has no video or keyboard interface, lots and lots of typical linux os processes can be shutdown, the kernel stripped to the bare essentials, MPD installed and your favorite smartphone, tablet, and even other devices can be used for remote control.
Anybody esle on board for this experiment?
-- Jim
Hey Guys - I have been using Squeezbox server (Linux) with the Transporter for quite some time. Built my system around it. I was very happy with the sound and I liked using eternet (could run long cables, cable quality was unimportant etc.) I did find that hard wired ethernet sounded better than wireless with the Transporter. I loved the flexability of Squeezebox server etc, etc. and so on.
In terms of sound quality, IMO and experience, USB has at this point in time superseded the ethernet protocol. I have even compared the digital outputs from the Transporter to USB converted to SPDIF output both going to the Gungnir. For the USB I was using JRiver as the software. This has been a recent revelation for me, although I have expected it. I have been reading about many diehard Squeezbox fans switching to USB (ex. John Darko).
With that said, it would be a fun project to build a dedicated music server around Linux and a laptop. I really love the almost infinite ways that digital can be used to create great sounding music. It seems that the bleeding edge of digital audiophiledome is shifting to those areas, such as dedicated servers/players SSD drives, software etc. USB is maturing very quickly. - Cheers!
In terms of sound quality, IMO and experience, USB has at this point in time superseded the ethernet protocol. I have even compared the digital outputs from the Transporter to USB converted to SPDIF output both going to the Gungnir. For the USB I was using JRiver as the software. This has been a recent revelation for me, although I have expected it. I have been reading about many diehard Squeezbox fans switching to USB (ex. John Darko).
With that said, it would be a fun project to build a dedicated music server around Linux and a laptop. I really love the almost infinite ways that digital can be used to create great sounding music. It seems that the bleeding edge of digital audiophiledome is shifting to those areas, such as dedicated servers/players SSD drives, software etc. USB is maturing very quickly. - Cheers!
Eric,
There's much more to it than the communication protocol used, and what you're moving across it. Standard 10/100 mbs ethernet is barely tested with 24/192 files, even with protocol overhead included. But we'll see what happens.
On the pci-mini to pci-express, I ordered one from a Canadian company, Amfeltec.com, today. They were the only ones who offered several power options, so I ordered the SKU: 037-03, which is powered by an external 12 volt supply. So it looks like I'll build a linear regulated supply with three regulators -- 12v for the alix board, another 12v for the mini-pci to pci express adaptor, and a 6v supply for the SOTM card -- if I'm remembering correctly what it requires.
Other expansion ideas could include using the second mini-pci slot (on the alix 2D2 board) for either a firewire 800 adaptor, or perhaps an esata interface.. Then one could have storage all local and use the ethernet for transferring files only. Then for a stand-alone server (no NAS or network connection) you could plug in a small usb wireless adaptor for remote control.
If I do any of this it will be later on after I get the basic Alix working with the SOTM usb card. My gut feeling is that this will be a rather remarkable usb server.
-- Jim
There's much more to it than the communication protocol used, and what you're moving across it. Standard 10/100 mbs ethernet is barely tested with 24/192 files, even with protocol overhead included. But we'll see what happens.
On the pci-mini to pci-express, I ordered one from a Canadian company, Amfeltec.com, today. They were the only ones who offered several power options, so I ordered the SKU: 037-03, which is powered by an external 12 volt supply. So it looks like I'll build a linear regulated supply with three regulators -- 12v for the alix board, another 12v for the mini-pci to pci express adaptor, and a 6v supply for the SOTM card -- if I'm remembering correctly what it requires.
Other expansion ideas could include using the second mini-pci slot (on the alix 2D2 board) for either a firewire 800 adaptor, or perhaps an esata interface.. Then one could have storage all local and use the ethernet for transferring files only. Then for a stand-alone server (no NAS or network connection) you could plug in a small usb wireless adaptor for remote control.
If I do any of this it will be later on after I get the basic Alix working with the SOTM usb card. My gut feeling is that this will be a rather remarkable usb server.
-- Jim
I have been doing a lot of research on building a Linux music computer and to me it looks like the Alix computers are a very good solution for the price. It is an established product that appears to work well for this function.
I know that Tom and Jim have been using the Voyage MPD verson of Linuxn but wanted to know if anyone has tried MPDpup? If so what did you think? Looks like a very light Linux build.
I know that Tom and Jim have been using the Voyage MPD verson of Linuxn but wanted to know if anyone has tried MPDpup? If so what did you think? Looks like a very light Linux build.
Brad,
I have not tried this yet, but it is a possibility. One of the nice things about all of this is that you can have as many different builds/configs as you want, each on it's own CF card, then swap CF cards to see which works best for you.
My mini-PCI to PCIE adaptor came today and fits great, but of course I don't have the SOTM card yet (and won't for a while, but this first step is done.
-- Jim
I have not tried this yet, but it is a possibility. One of the nice things about all of this is that you can have as many different builds/configs as you want, each on it's own CF card, then swap CF cards to see which works best for you.
My mini-PCI to PCIE adaptor came today and fits great, but of course I don't have the SOTM card yet (and won't for a while, but this first step is done.
-- Jim
Brad,
So, I just took a quick skim of the mpdpup stuff and it looks interesting, but it appears to be targetted at folks who don't want to learn linux internals and such as it provides wizzards, GUI tools and other things that are really of no use to me personally. And the playback software remains MPD. So, while I have no interest in this personally, it could be a great place for people not comfortable with linux and device/network configuration to get going with this stuff.
The GUI stuff is not accessible to me anyway, so I apologize but I will not be able to help others through this, as much as I would like to help.
In the mean time, I've been looking at some of the options in front of me, and I see some great places for the RPi and some places for the alix, and I now really want to build a NAS based system with the alix, SOTM usbx card SOTM battery supply, and separate linear regulated supplies for the alix card and the mini-pci to pcie card. All this looks like it will support PCM and DSD with DoP 1.0 and thus could be a really great server for my Sonore usb/dsd dac.
I also just noticed that the Voyage folks have a new usb to I2S/spdif interface card, so there is yet another possiblity for the BH dac and others with no usb, or usb 1.1 only connectivity.
I also just got, as part of a trade, a 3 meter, brand new WireWorld Starlight 3.0 usb cable -- wow, what a nice thing this is -- heavy duty comes to ind here as it is close to 3/4" wide but in the same flat-ish cable config that the other WW usb cables are. And it's backwards compatible. So, why the usb 3.0 if I'm only running 2.0 capable devices? Well, because it didn't cost me anything, and at least on paper, the conductors and shielding seem to be more robust, and I don't think that can really hurt anyting, and may even be an upgrade. Should find out this weekend.
Again, I'd really encrourage those who are curious about this stuff to look at the MPDpup distro -- it may be just what lots of folks will want. Lots of info, including the presence of the developer, on computeraudiophile.com
-- Jim
So, I just took a quick skim of the mpdpup stuff and it looks interesting, but it appears to be targetted at folks who don't want to learn linux internals and such as it provides wizzards, GUI tools and other things that are really of no use to me personally. And the playback software remains MPD. So, while I have no interest in this personally, it could be a great place for people not comfortable with linux and device/network configuration to get going with this stuff.
The GUI stuff is not accessible to me anyway, so I apologize but I will not be able to help others through this, as much as I would like to help.
In the mean time, I've been looking at some of the options in front of me, and I see some great places for the RPi and some places for the alix, and I now really want to build a NAS based system with the alix, SOTM usbx card SOTM battery supply, and separate linear regulated supplies for the alix card and the mini-pci to pcie card. All this looks like it will support PCM and DSD with DoP 1.0 and thus could be a really great server for my Sonore usb/dsd dac.
I also just noticed that the Voyage folks have a new usb to I2S/spdif interface card, so there is yet another possiblity for the BH dac and others with no usb, or usb 1.1 only connectivity.
I also just got, as part of a trade, a 3 meter, brand new WireWorld Starlight 3.0 usb cable -- wow, what a nice thing this is -- heavy duty comes to ind here as it is close to 3/4" wide but in the same flat-ish cable config that the other WW usb cables are. And it's backwards compatible. So, why the usb 3.0 if I'm only running 2.0 capable devices? Well, because it didn't cost me anything, and at least on paper, the conductors and shielding seem to be more robust, and I don't think that can really hurt anyting, and may even be an upgrade. Should find out this weekend.
Again, I'd really encrourage those who are curious about this stuff to look at the MPDpup distro -- it may be just what lots of folks will want. Lots of info, including the presence of the developer, on computeraudiophile.com
-- Jim
Jim,
any progress with the ALIX and Voyage MPD? I have been looking at a couple of options everything from the ALIX and a fanless Shuttle. I have not been able to get any of the MPD Linux builds to work on the computers I currently have. Not sure if it is me or the hardware. I will keep trying, but with all the agrivation it makes me want to get a Mac Mini.
Brad
any progress with the ALIX and Voyage MPD? I have been looking at a couple of options everything from the ALIX and a fanless Shuttle. I have not been able to get any of the MPD Linux builds to work on the computers I currently have. Not sure if it is me or the hardware. I will keep trying, but with all the agrivation it makes me want to get a Mac Mini.
Brad
Natural Sound
New member
BNAL said:
Brad, Can you give some more specifics on how you are configuring MPD? Are you using 2 computers or one? Which software are you using?
I found that most of the problems I had when configuring my system was with read write permissions on the hard drive. If the hard drive that contains your music files is formatted in FAT32 or NTFS, Linux cannot [easily] change permissions. When I used a Linux friendly format such as EXT3 most of my problems were solved.
Hi Brad,
Sorry, no progress yet. Still considering different options from basic network attached usb server, to full, stand alone server with onboard music storage, SOTM usb card, etc. First thing is to finish rgetting my music library consolidated and working with the mac minis. Then I can have music while I ponder and play with the various boards, distros, etc.
-- Jim
Sorry, no progress yet. Still considering different options from basic network attached usb server, to full, stand alone server with onboard music storage, SOTM usb card, etc. First thing is to finish rgetting my music library consolidated and working with the mac minis. Then I can have music while I ponder and play with the various boards, distros, etc.
-- Jim
nyc_paramedic
New member
Jim R. said:
jim,
mpd has supported raw pcm streaming from one mpd server to another for quite some time now. this will let you have one powerful machine (in the basement?) for SRC, EQ and file storage and stream PCM audio to the small ALIX in the listening room.
it's not something i've personally tested but the details are in mpd.conf. i don't need EQ and my ayre QB-9 handles 24/192.
p.s. i'm glad to hear you like the alix. i've been using it as a music server since 2007 when i got the idea after staring at my pc engines m0n0wall firewall and realizing it would make a perfect, dead quiet music player.
Hi Nick,
Thanks, and yes, it was you and your thread on audiocircle that got me and countless others on the road to using alix boards as music servers. You even helped me out by flashing my original CF card.
Anyway, I should soon have at least 2 or maybe 3 of these going in my house, and certainly nowadays there are far more, and generally better quality 24/192 capable usb dacs to choose from, so that does make it a bit easier.
I'm also exploring using the beagle bone black board as a streamer, and maybe using the HDMI output of the music data stream. At this point I have no idea how well it will work or how good it will sound, but these things are so cheap now, I figure it's an easy enough experiment to do.
An awful lot of us out here owe you a big thanks for your leadership on this project.
Thanks,
Jim
Thanks, and yes, it was you and your thread on audiocircle that got me and countless others on the road to using alix boards as music servers. You even helped me out by flashing my original CF card.
Anyway, I should soon have at least 2 or maybe 3 of these going in my house, and certainly nowadays there are far more, and generally better quality 24/192 capable usb dacs to choose from, so that does make it a bit easier.
I'm also exploring using the beagle bone black board as a streamer, and maybe using the HDMI output of the music data stream. At this point I have no idea how well it will work or how good it will sound, but these things are so cheap now, I figure it's an easy enough experiment to do.
An awful lot of us out here owe you a big thanks for your leadership on this project.
Thanks,
Jim
Natural Sound
New member
Nick,nyc_paramedic said:
As Jim mentioned you were the inspiration for many of us to go the ALIX/Voyage Linux MPD route. At first I was a little intimidated but I took things one step at a time and eventually got everything sorted. My NFS server has morphed a few times. I was very interested in keeping my power consumption as low as possible. So, the first computer was a MiniITX (Intel Atom) box running Debian Linux. That dropped my power consumption from over 100+ watts on the desktop to 20 watts on the MiniITX. Then I got the idea to try running the NFS server on a Raspberry Pi. At the time there werent very many OS options available so I installed Rasbian which is a Debian distribution for the Pi. The Raspberry Pi, a portable USB drive and a powered hub only pull about 5-6 watts. As time went on more operating systems were optimized for the Raspberry Pi. One that got my attention was Arch Linux. The Arch philosophy rang a bell with me. "Arch Linux defines simplicity as without unnecessary additions, modifications, or complications, and provides a lightweight UNIX-like base structure that allows an individual user to shape the system according to their own needs. In short: an elegant, minimalist approach." And the following Da Vinci quote sold me. "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
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