Kaiju wiring - basic tuning recommendations? Polypropylene cap replacements?

[fritzthecat]

Hello

I just got some questionmarks regarding the wiring being used within the Kaiju kits...

I'm just curious about the wires used inside the Kaiju Kits, ways of improvement and general kit tuning recommendations.

Based on my experience with another Kit provider based in Canada I would say that the solid core wires provided with the Kaiju kit are rather thin - Is there any special reason for doing so and would it be critical to use thicker copper / silver plated copper or solid core silver wiring?

Are the provided wires maybe used because the wires inside the transformer and chokes are as well thin so that it just makes sense to take the same or are there any other reasons like balancing sound or even critical security reasons?

How about using silver plated stranded and solid core silver wire for the Kaiju build? Where should solid core be used in general and where stranded wiring?

I got two Kaiju Kits - the first one I am just about to finish using the provided wiring and parts - for the second one I am planning to use improved wiring with as much silver content as possible - does that make sense?

Regarding wire improvement and tuning possibilities: how about the PEC level adjustment pots? Any advice to replace these with something better?

Any general input regarding Kaiju kit tuning towards a even more high end approach?

I'm aware the the 10uF/630v polypropylene caps are a critical component for sound improvement as well - how about using Audio Note Copper Foil in oil caps or maybe VCaps here? Maybe someone would like to join me when I am going to order VCaps just to get some discount?

Does anyone have experience and general recomendation regarding Bottlehead kit tuning?

Any input regarding these questions would be very much appreciated.

Best regards and best wishes from Switzerland,

Chris

 

[Paul Birkeland]

Based on my experience with another Kit provider based in Canada I would say that the solid core wires provided with the Kaiju kit are rather thin - Is there any special reason for doing so and would it be critical to use thicker copper / silver plated copper or solid core silver wiring?

The wire provided with the Kaiju is much, much thicker than the minimum allowable wire that could be used in the Kaiju.  We provide very premium teflon coated solid core wire that will not melt by the tip of your soldering iron (though we do provide some shielded twisted pair cable as well, and some heavier gauge solid core for the filament wiring). 

Are the provided wires maybe used because the wires inside the transformer and chokes are as well thin so that it just makes sense to take the same or are there any other reasons like balancing sound or even critical security reasons?

A lot of these transformers have several different thicknesses of wire depending on the winding.  The choice of copper size in a transformer is quite complicated, and may not dictate the minimum required wire thickness to be connected to said winding. 

How about using silver plated stranded and solid core silver wire for the Kaiju build? Where should solid core be used in general and where stranded wiring?

Stranded wiring should only be used in places where the wire is likely to move around a lot.  In the Kaiju, I believe the only place we used stranded wire was for the input cabling, where we were simply opting for a higher quality shielded twisted pair cable, and it happened to be stranded.

I got two Kaiju Kits - the first one I am just about to finish using the provided wiring and parts - for the second one I am planning to use improved wiring with as much silver content as possible - does that make sense?

This is a good idea. 

Regarding wire improvement and tuning possibilities: how about the PEC level adjustment pots? Any advice to replace these with something better?

There's always a more expensive pot out there somewhere.  The improvements tend to be very expensive and very small.

I'm aware the the 10uF/630v polypropylene caps are a critical component for sound improvement as well - how about using Audio Note Copper Foil in oil caps or maybe VCaps here? Maybe someone would like to join me when I am going to order VCaps just to get some discount?

The 10uF caps and 0.1uF coupling caps are quite important to the sonic signature of the amplifier.  Since you have two amps, I would leave one stock, then put fancy caps in the other.  I am not aware of any 10uF V-cap that has an adequate voltage rating for the Kaiju, though I believe there are some Mundorfs and Clarity caps that meet the requirements.

-PB

 

[fritzthecat]

Thank you so much for your replies - makes many things much clearer...;-)

Best regards,

Chris

 

[fritzthecat]

I just finished the assembly of my first Kaiju with stock parts - but as it got late yesterday I did not dare to turn it on - will do that tonite and perform the final adjustments in terms of hum balancing and remeasure voltages with inserted tubes and hope the magic smoke will stay inside the circuit. 

The second Kaiju I will modify using more silver and other foil caps. Regarding the caps - does anyone have experience - I just ask because I am not quite sure what to use and on the other hand 10uF @ 630 Volts is not available from that many suppliers. Recommendations would be very much appreciated - general tuning recommendations as well as I have no experience with bottlehead kits so far.

I modified the chassis a little bit using some pinewood and a very work intensive Shellac finish (lots of very fine sanding, polishing and applying layer after layer - in this case about 30). If anyone is interested I build these for others or am available in case of questions any time.

Thanks to everybody and have a good start into the new week.

Cheers,

Chris

 

[Chris65]

Nice work on the base, that would take time. Did you apply any finish to the transformer bell end?

 

[drewh1]

Hi Chris. I can tell you what I did to my kaiju fwiw.

Moved RCA inputs to front of chassis. Used short runs of marigo copper wire with cotton insulation for input wiring
Marigo solder
Bypassed balance pots  I also added a volume pot since I don't use a preamp
Moved speaker terminals to side and mounted on wooden chassis. Output wire is marigo copper
Used vampire speaker terminals and rcas
Used vcaps for input and mundorf silver oil for 10us
Eml mesh plate 300bs. These required some mods to bias correctly. You can read my thread on this for more info
DC regulator

Many will tell you different wire is bs but I have rewired other amps with the copper/cotton wire with good results.

Be prepared for a rocky ride with the caps. Break-in is annoying.

 

[fritzthecat]

Nice work on the base, that would take time. Did you apply any finish to the transformer bell end?

Hi Chris65

thank you...;o) I love working with woods - building my own speakers, furniture, guitars and stuff if time allows. For the transformer bell i usually take Metarex - see pic - with that you get a nice finish on almost any metal as long as they do not oxidate to much.

But I am thinking off building covers for the two chokes from aluminium and maybe apply some chrome to the transformer bells - but lets see... first I'll take an ear - did not find time up to now to turn the amp on for final adjustments - hope it won't blow - so far I am still using the 1,5 A fuse.

 

[fritzthecat]

Hi Chris. I can tell you what I did to my kaiju fwiw.

Be prepared for a rocky ride with the caps. Break-in is annoying.

Hi drewh1

I got some experience regarding that - I used quite some VCaps in my AN Kits I built before (what a nightmare experience - compared to that I feel like sitting on cloud seven in heaven here) they are running for more than 200 hours now and still I hear them changing sound towards more sweetness and clarity and a very very transparent midrange - amazing. For these I used 1mm diameter silver solid core silver from Audio Note (which cost me almost more than the whole original kit - absolutely crazy but I just wanted to know what it brings) so they are hardwired completely and sound nice.

 

[fritzthecat]

Hi Chris. I can tell you what I did to my kaiju fwiw.

Moved RCA inputs to front of chassis. Used short runs of marigo copper wire with cotton insulation for input wiring
Marigo solder

***

Used vcaps for input and mundorf silver oil for 10us
Eml mesh plate 300bs. These required some mods to bias correctly. You can read my thread on this for more info
DC regulator

Hi Drewh1

great - thank you - just a question regarding Marigo Wiring/ Marigo Copper - where do you get these from? Couldn't find any resources so far.

I have some PSVane Mesh Plate 300bs around - guess I have to mod as well to bias them correctly - never done before - I will read your thread and maybe get back to you with some questions.

VCaps for Input - I just don't have the manual around at the moment as I'm on a business trip so I don't know exactly which ones to be replaced - which value did you use and which voltage? As far as my experience goes there are only 300 & 600 V versions around and I only have experience with the CUTF 300 and 600 V versions I'm using on my AN Kits line hardwired line boards

 

[drewh1]

Hi Chris.  Talk to Ron at marigoaudio.com. I recommend his solder. My speaker designer swears by it.  I used 600 v or greater caps, in this case the cutf .1 vcaps. I used mundorf for the 10uf.

I found some decent pre painted choke covers on eBay. Had to modify them but they look OK.

I am very happy with the sound of the meshplates. Mods are not difficult but best to build it and measure with standard tubes to see where things stand. Let me know if you have questions.  And Paul at by is very helpful and responsive. Sounds like you had an adventure with AN. I considered their 300b kit for awhile but ended up with the Kaiju.

 

[fritzthecat]

Sounds like you had an adventure with AN. I considered their 300b kit for awhile but ended up with the Kaiju.

Hi Drewh1

adventure...? that would have been nice - it was and is a complete nightmare. Are you aware, that AN is not AN? The company Audio Note based in UK which is owned by Peter Qvortrup has nothing to do anymore with Audio Note Kits (ANK) based in Canada. Brian Smith from ANK (www.ankaudiokits.com) took over the kit business from AN (audionote.co.uk) about 11 years ago. 4 years ago Peter Qvortrup decided to separate the two businesses completely (and I guess he had good reasons to do so) and that Brian Smith is not anymore allowed to even use the name Audio Note with his products. I met Peter in March at the Mariott hotel in Zurich and he told me firsthand that he gets lots of complaints from unhappy ANK Kit buyers and that Brian is still sneaking the name Audio Note into his products whereever he can - but he actually is not even allowed to do so anymore!!! Okay, he changed the name of his company to ANK - but this still implies that there is at least some Audio Note inside his products - but this is not the case in terms of circuit designs anymore at all - only the older products are somehow based on original AN designs. Peter told me as well that ANK kits do not even sound good anymore as nowadays ANK is using own designs without any AN genes anymore. I built some older kits (L3 Phono, L4 Preamp, L4 DAC) which are still based on origninal Audio Note developments and I can say there really is Audio Note inside...;o) Stupid me ordered a kit1 using 300B output tubes that as well still is based on original AN design but the quality of what has been delivered is that low and the parts I got - I tell you, a pure nightmare (I just got a box full of bits and pieces - the tubes were missing, all coupling caps were missing, the output transformers etc. are crap and I could not get it to work up to now - I just lost about 5000 US Dollars as I had to buy lots of missing parts from Audio Note and they were not cheap. So really, I only can warn everybody: DO NOT BUY ANY KITS FROM ANK beside you are a fan of nightmares in terms of no support, no help and lousy parts quality. It is even difficult to unsolder stuff from their PCBs as the copper traces come off the boards immiediately when you have to reheat solder joints. I only can say: YOU TOOK THE RIGHT DECISION TO GO FOR BOTTLEHEAD...;o)

 

[fritzthecat]

Hi Chris.  Talk to Ron at marigoaudio.com. I recommend his solder. My speaker designer swears by it.  I used 600 v or greater caps, in this case the cutf .1 vcaps. I used mundorf for the 10uf.

I found some decent pre painted choke covers on eBay. Had to modify them but they look OK.

I am very happy with the sound of the meshplates. Mods are not difficult but best to build it and measure with standard tubes to see where things stand. Let me know if you have questions.  And Paul at by is very helpful and responsive.

Hi Drewh1

thank you for the contact at Marigo - I'll contact him to get some solder and copper wire to check it out. I'd love to use my PSVane meshplats with the Kaiju but actually I do not have much experience with SET power amps so definitively I'll need some advice and help to get there. Thank you for the advice who I may ask...;o)

I'll check out your threads.

Thank you so much and have a nice day,

Chris

 

[drewh1]

Well, I am not an expert but I looked at the specs for the Psvane Mesh Plate 300b. It looks like it is right in line with the standard 300b in terms of filament voltage (5v) and plate current (1.2A). it is likely you won't have to modify anything.

Too bad you had that experience with the ANK stuff. You will find plenty of help and information here. I have built 3 bottlehead kits and just sent a Tode off to my son for his birthday. I have had only good experiences with BH.  Like any forum online, people do have their opinions but for the most part, it is a polite and helpful group.

 

[fritzthecat]

Well, I am not an expert but I looked at the specs for the Psvane Mesh Plate 300b. It looks like it is right in line with the standard 300b in terms of filament voltage (5v) and plate current (1.2A). it is likely you won't have to modify anything.

Too bad you had that experience with the ANK stuff. You will find plenty of help and information here. I have built 3 bottlehead kits and just sent a Tode off to my son for his birthday. I have had only good experiences with BH.  Like any forum online, people do have their opinions but for the most part, it is a polite and helpful group.

I guess you are much more an expert than I am...;o) I'll try the PSVanes in the second Kaiju I am just about to start building. And I can only agree: Bottlehead is great - what you get here in terms of quick support and help is amazing - I am really happy with what I got from BH and I think the way the manuals are structured is exactly what a beginner needs - well, I am not a complete beginner but not so far away from that - I really want to learn as much as possible as our hobby is great and very satisfying and in the end when you are able to listen to what you built with your own hands it's just amazing when it sounds good.

What is so strage about ANK is that you do not find anything negative about them in the internet - but if you dig deeper you find lot's of people who went through the same nightmare.

 

[Doc B]

Thank you for the kind comments! I don't know this for a fact, but we may sell a few more kits than ANK. That might have some bearing on how much info is on the web. Regarding the manuals - it is my opinion that if we condensed the instructions to a diagram like some have suggested to me we would lose 85-90% of our customers, including most electrical engineers. But my experience in this is limited by the fact that I have only been selling kits for 21 years.

I will defend one thing - traces will lift off of anyone's PC boards with too much heat, including ours. PC boards were never intended to be reworked. That has been their Achilles' heel since they were invented.

 

[fritzthecat]

Hi Chris. I can tell you what I did to my kaiju fwiw.

Moved RCA inputs to front of chassis. Used short runs of marigo copper wire with cotton insulation for input wiring
Marigo solder
Bypassed balance pots  I also added a volume pot since I don't use a preamp
Moved speaker terminals to side and mounted on wooden chassis. Output wire is marigo copper
Used vampire speaker terminals and rcas
Used vcaps for input and mundorf silver oil for 10us
Eml mesh plate 300bs. These required some mods to bias correctly. You can read my thread on this for more info
DC regulator

Many will tell you different wire is bs but I have rewired other amps with the copper/cotton wire with good results.

Be prepared for a rocky ride with the caps. Break-in is annoying.

Hi Drew

I just ordered 0.1uF cutf VCaps and the sillver oil Mundorf supremes - there are 10uF AN Copperfoils available as well I'll gibe them a try as well in the first kit later - Thel produces 0.1 uF and larger Silver Mica Caps - maybe these might do the input job as well. For all the wiring I got 0.5 and 1mm Solidcore silver wire and for the connection from the RCAs to the vol pots I got shielded neotech solidcore silver wiring. What do you think I could replace the volume pots with - the stock PEC I don't like that much - so the have to go - maybe TKD? Or what would you recommend. As I really want to go for a silver signal path (I'll replace all non silverleadouts of components through solid core silver like Kondo does - I had a chance to visit them in Japan so I saw how they do it - amazing! If I could afford massive silver foil caps I would even go for that option. I am very courious how the pimpee Kaiju will sound compared to the stock ones. I'll post some pictures as I go ahead... Thank you and have a great day, Chris

 

[drewh1]

Those are trim pots for the inputs. I bypassed them completely. I added the goldpoint volume control as I use my kaiju without a preamp. I use goldpoint so that I can add a remote servo motor volume control. If you use a pre with some balance control you won't likely need them.

Can't wait to hear your report on the sound. those caps take forever to reach their potential though so it might be awhile. Some people break them in prior to installing.

I am surprised you are not using katatsuki 300bs!

Drew

 

[fritzthecat]

Hi Drew

I actually never heard of katatsuki 300bs - do you have experience regarding these - just had a quick glance as I am sitting in the train travelling to work...

I am very curious to find out the difference between stock and "go crazy" Kaiju! I'll keep you up to date about the progress.

Actually I am using different preamps but none of them has a balance control (ANK L4 (pimped like crazy with lots of silver following advise from Peter Qvortrup) and a MBL sand preamp and soon a bee pre I am about to order within the next few days - what do you think about this one?

Got some more questions but have to jump out of the train - will be back soon...;o)

Thank you so much and have a great day,

Chris

 

[galyons]

snip....

I am surprised you are not using katatsuki 300bs!

Drew

I think they are Takatsuki TA-300B  Damn fine sounding tubes. But I have only heard them in a series feed amplifier, not a parafeed.

Cheers,
Geary

 

[fritzthecat]

I will see if I can afford them once I am finished with my "go crazy" Kaiju... At the moment I have a completely different problem as I just finished assembling my first build - stock version - checked everything - all connections should be fine (gonna recheck again) and then I should push the button and turn it on... This is my status for four days now! I just don't dare to, I am so f.... nervous and my heartbeat is pounding like crazy as if it wants to jump out of my chest - wuaaaah.... I am always so damn nervous - just hope I manage to do it tonite! And it is even getting worse as soon I am going to start my second build using pure silver solide core wiring and the caps mentionned above. I am just wondering if it would be possible to improve the stock resistors as well - what do you think? Should I give it a try? And if yes, what resistors to use in which place? Or would that just be crazy and useless? What do you think?

Another question: I'd like to have some chrome nickel steal top plates lasered by a friend - these are mirror quality and look absolutely amazing - is anyone out there interested in joining me so we could order some more? This would save quite some money and the top plates look great - maybe I can find a picture of something else he did for me. Will be back soon...;o)