got the vinyl itch

[aragorn723]

Hi,

I have been thinking about getting into vinyl (which might sound strange to most for a 34 year old guy).  Anyways, I got an old Linda Ronstadt album on 33 years ago at a garage sale, and was amazed by the sound.  I would like to try it again, but don't have a turntable anymore (and don't really want to spend money to try it).  My main stereo is the Quickie feeding a large SS amp, but have an Onkyo HT unit with a phono stage and a Sony TA series from the 70's with a phono stage.  Starting to digress a bit, but does anybody know of a way to get a record player for free or for a relatively low cost?

Dave

 

[Paul Joppa]

Yard sales, or "estate" sales - the kind with a card table in front of the garage. Goodwill/salvation army/etc.

None of these will know whether it works or not, so be prepared to fuss with repairs or have your own yard sale a few times. Don't get changers, their mechanism is more likely to be broken and impossible to fix.

I'll wait for Josh to set me straight on these comments ...  :^)

 

[Grainger49]

You might have to clean the table/changer up a bit.  There are sites dedicated to cleaning, lubricating and adjusting Dual changers, which I recommend.  If you end up with a Dual (often United Audio on the base) I can  post one or two links to them.

 

[mcandmar]

I've also had an in cling to get into vinyl but know very little about tables and phono pre amps to know where to start.  My only memorys of vinyl was every time my sister broke the needle i got the blame.

Now if Bottlehead could come up with a DIY turntable kit, that would be awesome!

 

[Grainger49]

You missed that one.  It was dropped.

 

[Doc B]

Well, "that one" (the Bix) was not really something we came up with. It was one that was offered by DIY HiFi Supply and we were just a dealer for a little while. It was a really nice table that had some unfortunate speed control and spares availability issues. I'm used to being able to address the kinds of issues it had directly and that was not possible as a dealer, so we decided to send customers directly to DIY HiFi Supply for one instead.

That was like 10 or 12 years ago and it looks like they have revamped the turntable concept completely since then. One issue with the original was the bearing installation and finish, and it looks like they have a much more refined one now. I haven't looked at the product in many years, and what they have now looks very interesting.

http://www.diyhifisupply.com/opcart/index.php?route=product/product&path=179_145&product_id=1510

 

[Grainger49]

Dan, I have to agree.  That looks very little like the Bix that was sold many years ago.

 

[Chris65]

There's been a bit of buzz about these guys http://uturnaudio.com, basic model at $179.

 

[aragorn723]

Thanks for the replies.  A few years ago I found a technics sitting on the side of the road, just itching to get picked up.  Are turntables pretty easy to work on?  I'm somewhat mechanically inclined, and like tinkering with things..  Guessing there isn't too much to them, basically a motor to spin the record, a switch to turn it on, some kind of pot to adjust the speed, and then the needle and a mechanism to bring the sound to RCAs (which may be the complicated part!).  Sounds like it might be a fun project.

Dave

 

[Chris65]

Depends. Older 60's & early 70's gear tended to be pretty much mechanical but as transistors became more common, then things started to get a bit more complex, with Direct drives, speed control servos, etc. But there were also simpler belt drive designs, which are quite simple in concept.
Nothing complicated about getting sound out - wires from the cartridge to the phono stage (a Bottlehead, of course ;D).

 

[Paully]

Part of the problem of getting into vinyl on a trial basis is the expense of the ancillary items like a weight gauge, record cleaner, alignment jig, stylus cleaner, etc...  To me one of the cheapest ways to do it is to buy a direct drive P-mount turntable off of ebay.  Doesn't eliminate all the other stuff you will want and need but it gets you up and running easily and quickly and then you can decide from there how far you want to go.

See if there are any vinyl aficionados around you who can help you out to start.  It really helps.

 

[galyons]

snip....
See if there are any vinyl aficionados around you who can help you out to start.  It really helps.

IMO, the best advice.  Why get one of the very same cheap TT's that killed analog?  Plus you really don't have enough "software" to justify the hardware.  Go listen. Go learn. Put away the wallet!  Analog does not have to be expensive, but the TT and phono stage must be at least a couple of notches above "mass consumer" grade to really get an inkling of why some of us NEVER left our analog rigs.  Even worse, "free" may be worth less than the cost of acquisition, if your experience/opinion is formed based on the sound of inferior sources. 

Of course...YMMV, if you just want to hear Linda for "$#!Ts & Giggles"!!

If you are any where near the SF Bay area, come on over!!!! You could hear a Thorens TD150, Thorens TD124, Empire 208, Pioneer PL41 or the "Big Rig"!!!

Cheers,
Geary

 

[wullymc]

Now now Geary, you're just making us jealous with all those TT.  okay....I'll take the TD124 off your hands for you!

Once you go into vinyl it is a slippery slope.  If I were going to do it again I would buy a new cheap tt like the U-Turn Orbit that you know there shouldn't be any problems with and is set up well.  Keep that for a year or two and then see if you want to up the ante with a more expensive table.  That is just my opinion.

Take care and have fun with the journey!.....Dave

 

[aragorn723]

"Part of the problem of getting into vinyl on a trial basis is the expense of the ancillary items like a weight gauge, record cleaner, alignment jig, stylus cleaner, etc..."

What are all these things for?  Admittedly, I don't know much about vinyl, except how to play one  8)  My dad is into vinyl, but i'm not sure how much he would know about the more esoteric stuff.  (Can't remember what he has, but it might be a music hall).  For now i'm ignoring the phono stage, and would use the one built into my onkyo ht receiver (eventually if  it is something i really enjoy, maybe a reduction would do the trick).  That was the goal, to give vinyl an honest to goodness try without spending much of anything.  One really neat thing about listening to vinyl, for instance Linda Ronstadt, is the quality of the bass.  It is hard to describe, but seems deeper and tighter than with analog equipment. 

Geary,

What price range are we talking about here for a decent turntable?  Just checked Craig's list in the free section, and there are some records being given away for free!  (Pink floyd, Zepplin...).  Maybe that's a good way to start a decent collection.  Sadly though, I don't get out to the left coast much, that does sound like fun!

Dave

 

[galyons]

What price range are we talking about here for a decent turntable? 

Dave,
The entry price can be pretty cheap.  But you have to know what is a bargain and what you are just moving from their dust bin to yours!!!  With a little bit of knowledge you will recognize the opportunity buy/freebie!!

The early Japanese TT's with wood bases, metal plinths and and solid arms can be found with patience. Think Sansui, Pioneer, JVC, etc.  belt drive tables.  Look for fully manual, no auto cueing, return or changers,  Avoid the plastic crap with spindly arms.

Talk to Dad!!  No need to get esoteric. Our local CL* occasionally has vintage Japanese, Rega, Music Hall and other entry level "high end" tables for low entry cost..$100 with cartridge.  The vintage Japanese tables, here, go quickly, but they pop up for free to $100.  Garage sales and thrift stores often have a gem in the junk. If you see records at a garage sale, ask if they have the turntable!  Plan on buying a new belt.

Let folks on the list know where you are or visit.  Surely someone will want to impress you with their rig!!   

Cheers,
Geary

* Gotta bet the Hipsters to them!!!  ;D  They have driven the prices way up!!

 

[Grainger49]

I know you can get a decent Dual for $100 or less.  I prefer the ones with a tubular arm, they have a better suspension and bearings in them.  I'm using a Dual 1219 with my HOMC SAE (Coral) cartridge right now.

But the most important thing is the cartridge.  After all it produces the signal.  (Think about it!)  I get all kinds of arguments about tables and arms, but still, the cartridge produces the signal that gets amplified.  Bad arms will ruin a good cartridge's chance at delivering good sound.  A bad table will be off speed, have rumble or speed variations. 

You might post where you are and ask for help.

 

[aragorn723]

Hi Grainger,

I'm in Northern NJ, near NYC.  What is a belt drive table?  Thanks,

Dave

 

[galyons]

Hi Grainger,

What is a belt drive table? 

Dave

Dave,
Most turntables are driven by:
1) Belt drive: belt from motor to platter or sub-platter
2) Rim/idler drive:  motor drives an intermediate wheel which drives the platter
3) Direct drive:  Motor spindle directly drives the platter.

There are many "variations on the theme".  One of the most desirable vintage rim drive TT's, (Thorens TD124), has the motor driving the rim drive wheel via belt, very similar to my "modern" VPI* table with rim drive.)

I directed you toward belt drive purely  because it is the simplest drive to implement, which generally, means most of the production cost went into the motor, bearing and platter, the key turntable components.  Add-ons, such as auto cueing and/or return, direct drive, record changing, etc. mean unavoidable cost & manufacturing compromises on the key components. The added mechanical goodies usually detract, IMO,  from the sound reproduction of the TT. 

Vinyl reproduction is a simple concept... a stylus follows a spiral groove that has ridges and valleys that are an "analog" of the musical sound wave.  But therein lies the greatest challenge, we a talking modulations that are literally as small as 1 micron, (0.000039370in).  So adding any part of the TT that vibrates, resonates or any other outside interference, has a detrimental effect on the stylus's ability to tract the groove. This will unavoidably have a negative affect on the music reproduction.

But, PLEASE, take my evangelism with a "salt lick" size grain of salt, I am a purist!

Cheers,
Geary

* Ummmmm... wonder where they got that idea? 

 

[aragorn723]

Geary,

I'm a big fan of the KISS method   More features on a turntable, like autoreturn, are more things to break.  Belt drive sounds like the way to go (its kind of like picking a single disc CDP vs. CD changer). 

Dave