Cleaning Records

Alan,

The information is interesting and intriguing (had to use spell check on that).  I keep hearing good things about the Spin Clean.  The Michael Fremer recommendation, known vinyl nut (that is not an insult), carries quite a lot of weight with me.  

To cpaul, if you haven't any first hand knowledge you don't know what they can do.  I have not commented on cleaners I have not used.  You don't really know if a VIP or other cleaners more expensive than yours are more effective.  The experiment described by Alan is not conclusive.  The reverse needs to be done to make a conclusion.

I also wonder if two washings with any cleaner is better than one.  That is what is the crux of Bob's comment.

Years and years before the Spin Clean was made I bought a VPI 16.5 for $300.  A "moving sale" from one of the vinyl selling biggies.  So that boat has sailed and I'm pretty happy, see my previous posts in this thread.

I would like a shoot out between the Spin Clean and my VIP/AIVS (sold by Osage Audio) cleaning fluids.  Let me suggest 3 LPs where side 1 is cleaned by the Spin Clean and side 2 is performed by me.  I have already done this for a member at AK and he is looking for a VPI at a reasonable price now.
 
FWIW, I bought a VPI 16.5 (drain tube out the back) on E-Bay and like it very much. It is my only experience with vacuum record cleaners, so can't say it is better than the others, but it really does wonders to those $1 Goodwill (I have a few of them now).
 
So no one thinks I'm specifically bad-mouthing VPI or any of the other premium cleaners, that wasn't my intent.  Indeed I have no experience with them.  Also, as a trained scientist (as well as other things), I don't view Alan's post as scientific, and I'm sure he didn't intend it that way.  My comment was directed at the idea that in order to get one such machine to work it MIGHT take two passes to clean a record on it.  But of course, on a re-read, that wasn't what Wanderer said. 

As for a shootout, I'd bet that 10 or 20 seemingly similarly dirty LPs cleaned by both machines would give a pretty good, albeit non-scientific, picture of how they work.  My guess is that they will both do a good job, and perhaps that's enough for many of us.  But the Spin Clean can only clean the entire record (both sides) at a go, so a side 1 vs side 2 shootout won't work.

Cheers,
Carl
 
I wasn't thinking about this.  You are spot on there. 
cpaul said:
 .  .  .   But the Spin Clean can only clean the entire record (both sides) at a go, so a side 1 vs side 2 shootout won't work.

Cheers,
Carl
Click to expand...

Your earlier post says that the Spin Clean "does the trick for under 80."  But that is without the knowledge of what others do.  Yes, the Spin Clean might do a good job, but it might not be "the" job.  I'm an engineer, well versed in the scientific method.
 
Agreed, Grainger, and that's what I tried to say with my followup.  What's good enough for me might not be good enough for others.  What I like about the Spin Clean is that it does an incredibly good job at a much lower price than the vacuum machines.  AND there's a suggestion it might do equally well.  Not scientific, and one certainly can't draw that conclusion from what was posted alone, but I'm most interested in those observations that suggest digging deeper and challenging widely accepted notions (such as having to pay more to get more - something Bottlehead seems to question with virtually all it's kits).  I've considered building an ultrasonic LP cleaner based on lots of discussions on other boards, but in the end, with my setup (Thorens TD 165 with AT440MLa and Dual 1219 w/ADC XLM Mk2 Improved), I can hear no surface noise on most records after using Spin Clean (scratches aside).  I can only imagine that my thoughts might change if I were into high resolution MC cartridges and better setup overall.

(right now, these TTs feed into either a HagTech Bugle followed by Quickie or Yaoin M12-B (phono and preamp), amped by a Marsh A200 into Vandersteen 1Cs)

Carl
 
Yeah, I suggested it (Spin Clean) to a guy who lives a few miles away from me about a month ago.  It is THE bang for the buck cleaner if it is only half as good as reported. 
 
I picked up a spin clean used a while back for around $20 and tried it out. Seemed to clean records quite well but I thought that the bristles seemed a bit too stiff. Granted that assessment was completely subjective and I don't believe it damaged any of my records, it just didn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling. Could also have been a previous iteration. I see on the site they are now selling the MKII. Don't know if the one I had was a MKI or II or what changed between them if anything. I do know that I gave it to my friend Pagi and he has never mentioned having any problems with it.

I still like my GEM Dandy. Might pick up another 16.5 for nights I'm feeling extra lazy though.
 
Arno,

Dutch?  Maybe that is why I couldn't understand the audio track in the video.  It sounded like it was playing at 2/3 speed too!
 
Grainger49 said:
Arno,

Dutch?  Maybe that is why I couldn't understand the audio track in the video.  It sounded like it was playing at 2/3 speed too!
Click to expand...

LOL....nope...that is the way Tom Waits always sounds ;-)
 
Just to add my 2 cents here.  I bought, I think what was the basic model Nitty Gritty a decade ago.  It was on sale at AA for what I think was between 100 and 150 at the time.  Everything is manual and there is no platter, just the disc.  Nothing you couldnt do by hand with the exception of the vacuum.  I cant compare it to anything else but it works wonders compared to just using the a Discwasher type method.  I was really impressed by how well it worked on my old vinyl in terms of ticks and pops and keeping the stylus from gunking up.  But it's effectiveness is all in how you clean the records and it is LOUD.  Rather than the included velour type bursh I use these microfiber pads which seem to do a much better job of getting into the grooves withou any damage.  I also was using a formula for a home made cleaning solution that did seem a little better than the available Nitty Gritty solution available at the time.  However, the packaged solution did seem to work fine with a little more work (and I still have an unopened bottle of it).  Im sure that the more expensive machines work better and they are definitely faster and more convienent.  But that little machine does a good job of sucking the records dry and it still works great.  I wonder if using the spin clean to clean the records and then using my old Nitty Gritty to vacuum them dry would work well and make less work of it too.  I'll have to look into this.

I think that a manual machine is a worthwhile investment for those on a budget.  It was easily the best purchase I've made in terms of LP cleaning. 
But ... Did I mention that it is LOUD  :-)

Question for anyone who knows ... is anyone still making a budget vacuum machine under 200 these days?  Because even at the sub 150 dollar mark, that machine is way overpriced for what you got.  Not in terms of effectiveness but in terms of it basically being a wooden box with a brush a manually rotatable puck and a small internal vacuum.
 
For a vacuum machine in that price range you will have to make one yourself.  I have seen guys make a vacuum pickup out of a painting pad and a wet/dry vacuum.  The combination on any turntable would dry just about any LP once it has been cleaned.

BTW, I also believe you should rinse after cleaning.
 
Well, thankfully Im all set.  I cant believe that someone doesnt make something like my old basic model for about the same price.  I know things have gone up but for what it is, the price would still be inflated today.
 
I just watched the video of the OP and I find it interesting how careful he is about using a variety of techniques to clean the record, yet he then places it carelessly on the platter for the second side, sliding it across the cork mat.  Also sticking his hands inside the "rice paper" sleeve, wiping his fingers (which always have oil on them) along the brush AND the velour vacuum tube.  And his rinse is being distributed by a "soapy" brush, thereby undoing the work of the rinse.

So careful yet at the same time so careless.  Not that I judge him.  I too find it hard to be so careful.  But in the end, some of the handling simply weakens the careful cleaning that he argues is needed.  That's partly why I think so many different approaches end up resulting in such similar results.  Unless one is truly obsessive about cleaning methods, there's only so far they can go toward cleaning records.
 
As my mother used to say, "Youth is wasted on the young."

I like the word compulsive.  I'm compulsive and I'm an engineer.  You want your engineers to be compulsive and your surgeons to be perfectionists.

Stepping down from the soap box now...
 
booangler, that looks pretty cool and easy to build.  I've got an old turntable up in the attic and a wet/dry vac that I was about to throw away.  I think I've just found a project for them both.  I'm a chunk of PVC pipe away from having an awesome record cleaner.

That was some good fishing.
 
Hello,
My first post, looking forward to receiving my Crack next week. I also use the VPI 16.5, I have modified mine though. I added a 4.5" ventilation fan with a switch, allows me to clean longer. The spindle doesn't even get hot anymore! I also replaced the cork mats with a piece of 60 Duro neoprene. Less chance of contaminating a clean side than with the cork, and you can clean it. IMHO the most important component of a RCM is the cleaning fluid. I have tried everything, including DIY. The best I have found, hands down, is the AI 3 step system from Osage Audio. It uses an enzymatic fluid, cleaning fluid and ultra pure water rinse, I don't purchase the water as I have access to medical-grade reagent water at work. I use one brush and suction tube for each step. The records end up completely quiet, so quiet it will reveal problems in your system you have not heard before. At last count I have around 2000 records in my collection, so cleaning is very important to me.

Cheers,
Shawn
 
Shawn,

Sounds like you have read several threads by Mark and me over at AudioKarma.  Mark even had a special platter built for him and put the neoprene on it.
 
Laudanum said:
Well, thankfully Im all set.  I cant believe that someone doesnt make something like my old basic model for about the same price.  I know things have gone up but for what it is, the price would still be inflated today.
Click to expand...

I, too, have an early NG 1 and approximatly the same machine is available but for circa $300 street price. List price is nearer $400. I agree it does a fine job for clearing and agree it seems a tad high priced. However Nitty Gritty is very good about support and very responsive when contacted.

There is a machine for circa $160 but you must provide the vacuum. Rumor says Nitty Gritty makes it for KAB.

http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/rcleaner.htm    

...and  if your NG1 does not have roller bearings under the platter consider the KAB "Gliding Platter" upgrade.    
 
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