Blumenstein Ultra Fi

[Clark B.]

Hey Thomas, I've been writing up a response yesterday and in spurts today but now need to finish my important rewiring work on these for a customer before I took a night off to finish taking and compiling a few more impressions.  And I also might want to weigh in on the performance of these actually pretty darned good sounding 208 sigmas to review along side the rest.  It may be a little bit of cabinetry magic going on though... These are Terry's first pair of double horns afterall.  Dated June of 2002.

Pouring a little out for my homie,

Cheers,

Clark

 

[jpsimons]

John Simons here, my first post I think.

Interesting to hear about high frequency reinforcement on the Alphas, Clark. It's my personal belief that the highs are where music really lives. It's what gives the energy to music rock, it's where so much of the detail is. And the Orcas would support that claim; they don't go very low but still they're the most pleasant speakers I've ever owned, and I really could make due with them the rest of my life. Bass? Bah, nice to have but not that important.

I also have this theory that "relaxing" highs aren't about how loud or soft they are, but how they're distributed. The Orcas go way up over 20khz, which makes the highs smooth. Speakers that barely get to 20k, you have turn them up to hear the highest highs, the shimmer, and then the rest of the treble bites you. The Orcas never poke at my eardrums no matter how much I turn them up, and yet they're bright. They have a lot of punchiness.

Given my particular sonic preferences, I'd be awfully curious how the Alphas sound with more voltage than Feastrex recommends...

 

[Grainger49]

John, and the forum,

I asked Clark to recommend a supertweeter for my Orcas some time back.  His comment may be unrelated, but... there is always a but.  I have had my hearing tested and discovered that I have normal hearing up to 5k Hz. then it rolls off by 5dB and remains level above that. 

20 years in heavy industry, noise levels similar to Paul Joppa who worked for an airplane manufacturer, have taken its toll on my hearing.  OSHA mandated hearing protection is insufficient for guys who like audio.  I want something to replace the highs to where my system still has the sizzle of cymbals that I remember in my twenties.  I could hear 19.5k Hz reliably.

Obviously I need something a good 5dB more sensitive than the Orcas and a good 4uF first order crossover for a nominal 8 Ohm tweeter.  I am currently using some cheap supertweeters that lack the elegance of the Orcas.  I turn them off when friends younger visit for a listen.  The supertweeters are just for old farts with damaged hearing.

 

[Grainger49]

On to listening impressions....

Last night I had an old friend over.  He owns one of the Record shops here, Raven Records.  We had a couple of drinks, dinner and came up to a very well warmed up system.  I was a little disappointed by the bass response of the double Dungeness subs.  He wanted to hook up the Boston Acoustics sub. 

Then I noticed the bass went through some dramatic changes as I walked to my seat.  I moved him forward about a foot and a half and all was well.  My seat was in a notch in the room's bass response. 

Today I listened to Van Morrison's Moondance, Chicago Transit Authority, first LP, and now The Cowboy Junkies Trinity Sessions.  Nope, I didn't hear the horrendous room rumble from the air conditioner.  I haven't heard that for a long time.  Speaker changes for better imaging and soundstage have lost that ultra low noise, and it is just noise.  But the electric bass on Chicago's first album was very satisfying.  Moondance sounded like he and all the musicians were here behind the speaker line.  The bass drum and boomy old electric bass on CJ's Walking After Midnight is realistic. 

I set them up just as specified by Blumenstein's site and haven't felt the need to touch the knobs since.

 

[Clark B.]

Hi John,

Great to see you on here!

I agree with everything you say about the highs of the Orcas. Not to toot my own horn here too much, but it is no small feat to get a $40 driver to sound like this in the HF department.  Alot of the "coolness" to their final character owes to our tuned rubber bushing method of dampening the stamped steel driver frame, and the lack of any damping material in the cabinet as a result.  The use of nice plywood that's been heavily braced (Birch or bamboo) also helps quite a bit too in the highs.

With the Alphas, what's so key about them is that they don't seem to have a "parasitic resonance" sound to them after they've warmed up.  Its pretty easy to shape or add to this sort of raw ingredient into something that would suit people well.  Much more difficult to seemlessly "calm down" a "nervous nelly."

Though, before I monkey around too much with higher voltage with this FC, (which is definitely in the cards), I really want to clean up the field coil wiring from the power supply to the driver with something that's really low resistance and listen closely for the difference in sound now that I'm used to the current paradigm of these drivers in their current boxes, wires etc. and I've got a feel for the way they warm up through the day and behave in general.  Now I've just gotta work my a$$ off patiently to keep putting all the rest of the puzzle pieces together to crack the code.

For instance, the current set of field coil wires I have were (embarrassingly) lengthened to over 20 ft each by soldering 3 lengths together to get each side long enough for a PA gig I did for a singer/songwriter friend a few years ago.  I'd imagine that those extra solder joints aren't doing any favors for the overall performance of those cables in a higher fidelity application though...

Also, I have some nice new low resistance field coil lead wires to try for the runs that are inside the box.  Even switching those out alone should brighten things up in a pleasant way.  When I first tried the drivers on our bench last week, I plugged them in straight to the P.S. with those cleaned up lead wires with the drivers outside of the box, the highs had a noticably clearer tone to them.  Based upon the results from experimentation with cabling in the rest of the system that I did this week that positively affected the response at 10k, it might just be a case of rebuilding pretty much everything in the system really nicely and taking fresh impressions with this 4.5 Volt P.S.

I've played with field coil wiring in the past and it has a similar effect as changing speaker wire to higher quality stuff, but beyond affecting the DCR of the field coil circuit slightly, perhaps desirably "quickening" the relationship between the power supply chokes to be able to deal better with the back EMF from the field coil, I can't offer any other potential explanation as to why FC cabling can affect the sound so much, other than to say that I've heard from other folks who've found out the same about the cabling of these and other field coils.

But something good about the Feastrex drivers in general is that their sound is so robust, you don't need to be too dogmatic about following "the rules" with voltage, tweeters, cabinets or etc.  

As soon as we get these Cain & Cain BENs in crates and shipped off after the weekend, I'm going to lock myself in the shop and work on refining these Alphas over thanksgiving.  They still need more hours to be put on them before I can consider measuring the FS of the driver itself as well.  Based upon the bass performance that's still been opening up, I am expecting a slightly lower number than the whizzered versions for sure.  For a 5" driver, this is definitely something that I am excited about!

Cheers,

Clark

Still compiling notes from the Mark Audios before I post results from the ~ year or so of experimentations with them

 

[Clark B.]

Grainger,

I don't care if my customers are old farts or not, I just want to make speakers that work for their ears and musical tastes!  So a supertweeter or boost of some sort seems like a very natural addition for folks with any significantly attenuated high frequencies in their hearing.  My philosophy with a "mass market" fullranger like the Orcas is to make something that is more likely than not going to work well for everybody in its "nude" state, just plugged in and played satisfyingly with almost any sort of amplifier without any tone controls engaged.  Or alternatively, you can look at it as the fact that they are close enough to "right" that the folks who know themselves to be outliers in the bell curve of frequency response in human hearing can slightly "shape" them to suit their individual taste.  But in general, you probably want to start with something pretty stinkin' good before you try to band-aid your way to perfection

I'm glad to hear about your Double Dungeness opening up.  I'd suggest trying floor placement as well to get the lowest notes coming in stronger or perhaps the floor placement might help deal with any nodes in your room's frequency response. 

Also, though this is something super basic that I'm sure you've already troubleshooted, (and I hope its not insulting to your intelligence to bring it up!) is to make sure that the polarity of the subs' input wiring is correct.  I've had it wrong a time or two before I noticed what was wrong.  And I was duly embarrassed.

I've also learned from extended use (and customer feedback) that both gain and frequency adjustment knobs should be set at just a tiny bit below the 10 o clock position (9:45-9:55) with most floor placements.  The drivers get more efficient as they break in and eventually you'll need slightly less gain in the amps than you would when the drivers are fresh.  In some ways, I've noticed that a tiny little bit less gain from the double subs integrates better from a psycological standpoint, though the margin for what constitutes "slightly soft" is really slim.  I usually just tune them patiently and gradually by ear from that initial 10 o clock position to what sounds the most natural with all kinds of music.  Then I almost never find myself adjusting them to suit different genres of music or anything.  They just seem to finally "click" together at around 9:45-9:55 after several months and I just end up prettymuch forgetting that there's a sub(s) playing at all. 

One more thing to look out for as well is that the knobs on the sub amps are actually lined up with the lines on the dials.  Sometimes these get put on "a tick" off at the factory.  To get them set correctly, turn the knob all the way down and see if the tick mark on the knob lines up really closely with the first line on the dial.  If it is not lining up, then the knob can be pulled off and put back on in the correct position.  We almost always catch this discrepancy before we ship, but it might be worth a check in case we forgot as it could slightly affect the "stereo" aspect of the bass in a double sub arrangement.  For example -  if one of the subs' knobs were one tick off this could mean that your "visual" match of the knobs (for stereo subs) could be a little different from the actual match of the acoustics.  Its an easy check to make anyways.

One reason I like double subs is that you can ever so slightly compensate (if you need to) for assymetrical room placements that are often unavoidable in modern (I.E. socially acceptable) listening environments.  For instance, one sub in the corner, one out in the room.

Cheers,

Clark

 

[Clark B.]

On to listening impressions....

Last night I had an old friend over.  He owns one of the Record shops here, Raven Records.  We had a couple of drinks, dinner and came up to a very well warmed up system.  I was a little disappointed by the bass response of the double Dungeness subs.  He wanted to hook up the Boston Acoustics sub. 

Then I noticed the bass went through some dramatic changes as I walked to my seat.  I moved him forward about a foot and a half and all was well.  My seat was in a notch in the room's bass response. 

Today I listened to Van Morrison's Moondance, Chicago Transit Authority, first LP, and now The Cowboy Junkies Trinity Sessions.  Nope, I didn't hear the horrendous room rumble from the air conditioner.  I haven't heard that for a long time.  Speaker changes for better imaging and soundstage have lost that ultra low noise, and it is just noise.  But the electric bass on Chicago's first album was very satisfying.  Moondance sounded like he and all the musicians were here behind the speaker line.  The bass drum and boomy old electric bass on CJ's Walking After Midnight is realistic. 

I set them up just as specified by Blumenstein's site and haven't felt the need to touch the knobs since.

Grainger, Glad to hear that you've got the Dungeness figured out now.

Cheers,

Clark

Edited: initially I misinterpreted Grainger's message

 

[Grainger49]

Clark,

Last week the whole system was out of relative phase.  I knew when noting imaged in the center I had something wrong.  There are always 2 or 3 voices or instruments around the center spot. 

The phasing on the tiny wire for the Dungeness Subs is hard to see.  I think I got them right but will double check tomorrow.  I'll also try a stack of Dungeness - stand - Orca.

 

[Clark B.]

Thomas,

After writing up and looking over my notes and impressions on the Marks, I realize that the only information I really need to convey is actually pretty simple.  Like you mentioned, the Alpair 6P, 10P and 12P just weren't suited to fit into our "house sound" of high frequency presentation - just yet.  Now these are still better than many fullrangers for the price, and the bass is just great and was easy to get from all the enclosures we built and especially so in the heavily braced and double thickened 3/4" bamboo "final" cabinets we came up with for them.  So I definitely do respect the following behind these drivers.  They are gonna suit somebody's tastes, just not mine, nor the local customers and close friends I demonstrated them to over the past  several months.  So for now we've determined to stay true to the search for exactly what we want in a mid priced FR and to keep an eye on this brand into the future to see the newer models they come up with.  I especially have to applaud Mark and his team for overcoming a significant health challenge last year and coming out on the other side making drivers that are better than ever.  There aren't enough people in the industry that care as much as these guys. 

The other Fostexes are probably another story for another day, but of course their reputation as being "hit and miss" is well deserved.  I promise I'll do a good writeup soon because I probably owe it to our community to share my impressions on them in a concise and easy to follow essay of some sort.  There's a partial writeup of these impressions in a discussion in another thread about alternative drivers for the Abby cabinet.  Because of my proximity (pure luck) to Cain and Cain in the early days, I got to bring home or buy and prototype with almost every model of fullrange driver that Fostex has made since 2001, even many of the Japan only special editions, and lately even a pair of the old style (whizzer cone) sigmas with the darker paper just showed up, awaiting impressions to be taken. 

But I can't do any of this work with my hands just a-hangin' out on the keyboard.  Gotta go!

Cheers,

Clark

Edit: spelling.

 

[Grainger49]

I checked tonight.  The subs are in phase.  I didn't try moving the Dungeness subs to the floor yet.

 

[Grainger49]

Yesterday I spent a large part of the day preparing and smoking the Thanksgiving turkey in my Big Green Egg fighting the cold and rain.

Also, I got the delivery of Modern Jazz Quartet's Live At Music Inn Vol. 2. LP.  So this morning I fired up the system to listen to the LP of a CD (MOFI) that I have enjoyed for many years.  The mix is odd, MOFI must have cleaned it up.  It is very early stereo.  Some songs are all bunched up in the right speaker (or it could be a bad connection in the phono setup).  Others have Sonny Rollins in the left speaker, piano just left of the right speaker and bass and drums in the right speaker.  The bass sounded very good with a lot of wood on the string bass.  The cymbals have definition but I don't hear the extension of the sizzle that I did years ago.  I'm listening to the Orca/Dungeness combination.

After moving the seat forward 1.5 feet the bass filled in very well.  It seems to go way down!

Then I put on the SACD of Kind Of Blue.  Just to test the highs.  It might be cleaner but I'm still suffering from 20 years of industrial noise, a hearing loss.


Update:  I got some of the sizzle back today by putting Kind Of Blue in proper absolute phase.  When reversed the sizzle is one of the things you lose.

 

[tdogzthmn]

I was wondering if there's any benefit to using a stereomour to drive my orcas in a near field application. My sex has the cs4 board installed and so far the system has great detail. I know the stereomour has more power but I'm not sure if there are advantages of using it in this setting.

 

[Clark B.]

Thomas,  I'll do a good sitdown comparison of these two in a desktop application for you soon. 

But to respond briefly, while I've always recommended the Sex amp for desktop use, its partially because of the implied size, budget, power, and microphony constrains of a typical desktop setup.  But if your considerations arent so constricted, then other options definitely open up.

In small to mid sized living spaces, the Orcas work really well with 3-5 watts as well, be it 2A3, el84, El34se, low power solid state and the like. 

But I personally (and many people tell me as well) that the 2A3 or 45 tube is probably the easiest and ultimately the least expensive way to "get there."  The 2A3 is the cleanest and funnest sounding "mid power" triode available to use with many speakers, and the Stereomour does the tube justice like few other 2A3 amps I've heard at any price, with the other most obvious next step up and frankly off the ladder entirely (at least for me anyways) being the 2A3 or 300B Paramount, also in Bottleheads lineup. 

The continued commercial success of these models should come as no surprise.  We are all lucky that these guys are pushing the performance to price envelope with these classic triodes so far in the modern day.  In a sense, they've been under continuous development for 90 years.  Just like Bach, theres a reason people keep coming back to the classics.  Feeling great thanks for the beautiful music we have to share with our family on this wonderful thanksgiving day.

Clark

 

[tdogzthmn]

Got my Stereomour fired up today and playing with my Orcas.  Some immediate differences I have noticed coming from the SEX is the larger more powerful sound with a boost in the bass.

It's hard for me to quickly switch back and forth between my SEX and Stereomour so making comparisons won't be as immediate as with headphones. 

I'll post more impressions once I've had some time to soak in the sounds of the Stereomour.

 

[Phillip Townsend Lontz]

Clark and friends...

I am as happy and grateful as a shelter dog with a new home.
Molly and Clark have seen to it that I have received a pair of Orcas. (I did have to part with a few dollars)
Thank you both.

A few things to get out of the way... First... Phil Townsend has been my name on various forums since the early days. I have decided to use my full name since NSA knows all anyway.
I am a Ham, K5SSR and have been so for years. But I can heard good and bad speaker wire.... They do not some the same. I am also a pretty good EE but thankfully retired.
I met Clark the first time at RMAF in the Feastrex Room with Joe Cohen and Hal Teramoto San. I am a builder of all things of wood and electric. I am also lazy.
Why build if you can buy something that is as good OR better than you can build yourself. Orca is that way for me.
Now I am not going to say the Orca is better than my Feastrex 5Dnf...
It is a very different animal. But bear in mind that the 5Dnf is around 4000 thousand USD. Yes. So how does a little 3 inch 40 dollar driver compare?

I am not going to answer that. It's silly. How does my Rolls Royse compare to my VW bug? Silly question.
But I will say this... You have got to get Molly and Clark to ship you a pair.
Love etc
Phil

Pure music player, Jriver, Ammerra... Etc....
Mac mini
Brick
Apogee Duet
Aurora 8 by Lynx
A few of Pappa Nelson's efforts ... Amp Camp Amps... Pass Lab x...
Some 811 DIY and 2A3 DIY.s
2a3 design stolen from Jeffery Jackson fair and square. Stacked ps.
Was a Sex amp to start... Now it's... Well a very serious well modded amp
DIY 45 with Cunninghams, quality measured in poundage. Iron by Dave Slagle and Mike of Magnequest...
No turntable.
No CD player.
No arm.
No micro Benz or denon.

Lots of speakers... Big Bens... Bigger is better.... OB ( with Feastrex and Altec 16")
Orcas, and a bunch of subs all of which suck.

 

[jrebman]

Hi Phil,

Welcome! I like your attitude I too am retired (disability) and used to be an EE as well, though only a fair to middlin' one -- much better at software and embedded systems. I'm also a lifetime wood, metal, and electronics designer/builder.. But I do have a TT in addition to my mac mini based computer audio setup, but no cd spinner.
I currently have two pairs of orcas and a beatiful pair of Clark's now-discontinued Nagas and a new pair of Rethm Trishnas breaking in. 45s and 2a3s are where it is for me.

Anyway, welcome again and just wait until those Orcas get some serious playtime on them!

Best,

Jim

 

[Molly]

We ran into a little hitch trying to source our regular caramelized bamboo of the right color and quality. We're having a batch shipped to the shop from San Francisco to fulfill current orders. In the meantime, we decided to ramp up production on birch to fill the void in the wood shop.

We'll have 15 pairs of birch Orcas and 8 pieces of birch Dungeness subs ready to ship the week before Christmas. For those who are longtime followers of the company, you know that this is a record low turnaround time, and we're encouraging anyone who is interested to get their orders in now.

Thanks, Phil, for posting!

Molly

 

[Clark B.]

Our new guy Tim Taylor (yes, that is his real name, and he's a fantastic woodworker!) and I just picked up our order of dark caramelized bamboo and its going to make for some truly awesome systems.  So we are still on target to ship the majority of our orders prior to Christmas. 

We will also be making additional components THIS WEEK of our most popularly ordered items (both birch and bamboo), and so if you'd like to get in on the action, let us know what you'd like to order from us, and we'll let you know the feasibility of getting your order out in time for the holidays or very shortly thereafter.  We are trying to keep our order volume healthy and our turn around time quick through these holidays and thereafter, so if you've been sitting on the fence, now is a great time to jump on board with us.

We need the continued support of our fans and clients to keep this American made dream alive and flourishing for all our sake!

Cheers,

Clark

 

[tdogzthmn]

After having spent two weeks with both the Stereomour and SEX I have come to appreciate greater soundstage and air which the Stereomour gives the Orcas.  After installing the CS4 board into the SEX amp, I found it did increase the gain of the amp along with the bass impact.  The Stereomour Is able to expand the sound to a greater level and provide a better sense of completeness around each element of sound.  A worthy step up in sonic ability for the Orca.  Next step is to try some different 2A3 tubes to further unleash the capabilities of the drivers.  Any suggestions as to what tube I should try is welcomed!

 

[Hank Murrow]

I changed the National Union 2A3's out in my PB-built Bottlehead Customs amp for JJ 2A3-40's, which provided an immediate enlargement of the soundstage, and frequency extension in both treble and bass.

Cheers, Hank in Eugene