Grainger49
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Haiku
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Eros BUILD HELP NEEDED
- Thread starter haiku626
- Start date
Hi Grainger,
Yes, the readings for kreg were good before at 1.21vdc and the R3 resistor did test good at 174. But now the readings for kreg are 4.91 s/b 1 and R3 is .2 s/b 175.
If I am taking the R3 resistor reading directly from its 2 wire leads on both side of the resistor, would the reading matter if I had a bad solder somewhere? I thought that I was isolating the meter reading to the resistor only by doing this.
Yes, the readings for kreg were good before at 1.21vdc and the R3 resistor did test good at 174. But now the readings for kreg are 4.91 s/b 1 and R3 is .2 s/b 175.
If I am taking the R3 resistor reading directly from its 2 wire leads on both side of the resistor, would the reading matter if I had a bad solder somewhere? I thought that I was isolating the meter reading to the resistor only by doing this.
Paul Joppa
Moderator
The 2N2222 may be damaged; its base and emitter are across the 174 ohm resistor. (The earlier grounding problem may have exposed the transistor to too much voltage.)
Of course it's possible that those two leads are just shorted on the board, either by a solder bridge or a stray wire. Bright light and a magnifying glass are in order - and plenty of patience, it's a pain to unscrew the board and get it to where you can see the underside. If you can't locate a short then you'll have to remove the transistor to test it and re-test the resistor. I expect when the transistor is out, the resistor will measure normally, in which case just replace the transistor with a new one. Contact Eileen on Monday to get a replacement.
Of course it's possible that those two leads are just shorted on the board, either by a solder bridge or a stray wire. Bright light and a magnifying glass are in order - and plenty of patience, it's a pain to unscrew the board and get it to where you can see the underside. If you can't locate a short then you'll have to remove the transistor to test it and re-test the resistor. I expect when the transistor is out, the resistor will measure normally, in which case just replace the transistor with a new one. Contact Eileen on Monday to get a replacement.
Paul Joppa
Moderator
That's unexpected! Remove R3 and re-check its resistance - if it is 174 then there's a short on the board, if it's still 0.2 then the resistor is shorted - extremely unusual! - but it would explain the data.
For the transistor, check resistance from base (pin 2) to emitter (pin 1), and base to collector (pin 3). You may have to google "2n2222 datasheet" to identify the pins. Do each check in both directions. They should read very high in one direction, low in the other - a few hundred ohms, not zero - actual value depends on your meter.
For the transistor, check resistance from base (pin 2) to emitter (pin 1), and base to collector (pin 3). You may have to google "2n2222 datasheet" to identify the pins. Do each check in both directions. They should read very high in one direction, low in the other - a few hundred ohms, not zero - actual value depends on your meter.
Paul Joppa
Moderator
Zero seems improbably low, but both junctions seem to rectify - so I'm not quite sure what to think. These readings will be different on different meters, which is a pain.
Check the 174 on the other (working) board (without unsoldering) - if it is also zero, then the zero does not indicate a problem. If it's 174 or close, then replace the 2N2222.
Check the 174 on the other (working) board (without unsoldering) - if it is also zero, then the zero does not indicate a problem. If it's 174 or close, then replace the 2N2222.
Hi Paul,
Sorry but the 2N2222 reading should be OL (over limit) not zero for Base to 1 and Base to 3. Does this change your recommendation to replace the 2N2222?
R3 reading on the good side (left channel) is okay at 173.5.
R3 on the bad side reads 173.4 taken off the board and .2 again when put back in the board even with the 2N2222 removed. If I place the resistor in R3 on the A side of the board it reads 173.4.
Sorry but the 2N2222 reading should be OL (over limit) not zero for Base to 1 and Base to 3. Does this change your recommendation to replace the 2N2222?
R3 reading on the good side (left channel) is okay at 173.5.
R3 on the bad side reads 173.4 taken off the board and .2 again when put back in the board even with the 2N2222 removed. If I place the resistor in R3 on the A side of the board it reads 173.4.
Paul Joppa
Moderator
Yes it does change - the 2N2222 is OK by this test, as is the resistor. There is a short somewhere on the board, or a mis-connection. One end of R3 goes to -reg which is grounded; the other end to the transistor (terminal "r"), to R4, and to terminal "x" - if any of these are grounded, that would be the problem.
If you can't find it, at some point you'd do better to just build and install a new board. Eileen can help with that if necessary.
If you can't find it, at some point you'd do better to just build and install a new board. Eileen can help with that if necessary.
Hi Paul,
I have examined the board using a magnifying glass and have reviewed the manual instructions for the board along with comparing the wiring to the good board. I don't see any possible bridges except where traces are shared at breg and kreg. Can something at socket D or the shunt regulator PC board affect the readings that I am getting, or is this eliminated from causing the problem that I am experiencing? I want to make certain that I cover all areas before calling Eileen for a rebuild of the C4S board.
I have examined the board using a magnifying glass and have reviewed the manual instructions for the board along with comparing the wiring to the good board. I don't see any possible bridges except where traces are shared at breg and kreg. Can something at socket D or the shunt regulator PC board affect the readings that I am getting, or is this eliminated from causing the problem that I am experiencing? I want to make certain that I cover all areas before calling Eileen for a rebuild of the C4S board.
Paul Joppa
Moderator
You can trace wires from the other terminals I mentioned, or disconnect those terminals from the rest of the preamp. IF the board is not connected to anything else, and is correctly wired without shorts, then there can't be a short at R3 ...
Paul,
I removed the wires that are connected to the board one by one and took a reading after each wire was removed. R3 reads about .2 at each step and when the C4S board was totally free of the amp, the resistor at R3 still reads .2
Flipping the board over and examining it closely with a magnifying glass, I still could not find any bridges that would cause a short; I even had my wife, who is younger and has better vision, look it over. Other than this I wouldn't know what to look for in what is causing the short. I am pretty much "stumped."
Removed from the board the resistor reads properly at 173.5.
I removed the wires that are connected to the board one by one and took a reading after each wire was removed. R3 reads about .2 at each step and when the C4S board was totally free of the amp, the resistor at R3 still reads .2
Flipping the board over and examining it closely with a magnifying glass, I still could not find any bridges that would cause a short; I even had my wife, who is younger and has better vision, look it over. Other than this I wouldn't know what to look for in what is causing the short. I am pretty much "stumped."
Removed from the board the resistor reads properly at 173.5.
Paul Joppa
Moderator
First, let me say I'm sorry this has become such a frustrating problem! Happens to all of us, and we never get used to it ... but we will resolve it, one way or another!
The likeliest place for a short is between the "A" and "r" pads where the 2N2222 installs. Less likely is near the jumper which goes from bA to bB; the adjacent terminals marked "x" should not be connected to anything. Be sure to look on both sides of the board. Those are the only ones I can see.
If that doesn't help, I think you should contact Eileen, mention this thread, and ask for a replacement board and parts. Sometimes it's less work to do it again than the figure out what went wrong.
The likeliest place for a short is between the "A" and "r" pads where the 2N2222 installs. Less likely is near the jumper which goes from bA to bB; the adjacent terminals marked "x" should not be connected to anything. Be sure to look on both sides of the board. Those are the only ones I can see.
If that doesn't help, I think you should contact Eileen, mention this thread, and ask for a replacement board and parts. Sometimes it's less work to do it again than the figure out what went wrong.
I would like to say that I am taking this as an invaluable learning experience. I am very grateful for the support of all who have contributed, and this has been the driving force for me. Along with that I have also had a sample of the Bottlehead sound that I will be rewarded with although the experience has come from just one channel. A Conrad Johnson PV11 has been my phono source for the past 20 years; nice tubey sound but noisy.
Will examine the board closely in the areas that you mentioned this evening when I get home from work.
Will examine the board closely in the areas that you mentioned this evening when I get home from work.
Grainger49
New member
Don't feel rained on, as we used to say. I have been building kits since 1965 and Paul Joppa had to tell me I swapped the input and output wires in my installation of C4S boards last week.
We all get to a point that we can't see what we don't see. Chill out, have a cold, adult beverage and get someone else to look at it as you read out what should be connected where.
You are at the point that you can't see the forest for the trees.
And give a cold, adult beverage to the guy who finds the mis-wired element after he finds it.
We all get to a point that we can't see what we don't see. Chill out, have a cold, adult beverage and get someone else to look at it as you read out what should be connected where.
You are at the point that you can't see the forest for the trees.
And give a cold, adult beverage to the guy who finds the mis-wired element after he finds it.
I hope none of you thought I had given up since I have not posted in a week. I did have two other people look over my build of the boards which were found to be built as per instructed, and no obvious solder bridges were noted. Why R3 is shorted is still a mystery. Therefore, I took Paul's advice to order new parts, and rebuild the board. I also ordered a replacement on/off switch that was received defective, and a Bottlehead Badge which I forgot to order initially.
There was small box in my mailbox when I came home Monday evening from the Queen. I initially told myself that I would save the build for the weekend, but could not resist starting the board rebuild at 9:00 PM. I had it finished and installed by 10:30 and did the voltage check. Kreg was still a little high at 1.34VDC but a far cry from the former 4.91; all other readings were okay within the acceptable margins. I wanted to but didn't dare hook up the Eros to my system to see if I had sound in both channels. A failure would have devastated me and I would not have been able to go to sleep.
When I got home from work on Tuesday evening, I swapped out the defective on/off switch and hooked the Eros up to my Conrad Johnson preamp, and gave the Bottlehead Crack with Speedball upgrade the honor of the initial sound check instead of using my power amps and speaker set up. I put the Neville Brothers "Yellow Moon" disc on my turntable and crossed my fingers as the stylus hit the vinyl.
Man, I never new what I have been missing for the past 40 years of listening to records! The Eros soundstage was unbelievable, and its gain is very generous with my Soundsmith cartridge. The bass was solid and deep, and the highs caught me off guard. I guess I had become accustomed to the laid back sound of my CJ and the Eros had much more low end slam and sparkle on the upper end. I am very impressed with the Eros and it's not even broken in; sort of reminds me of the Crack sounding very good without any break in time. I would like to congratulate Paul Joppa, Doc, and the Queen on an exceptional audio component.
I would also like to extend a special thank you to Paul Joppa, Grainger, and Noskipallwd for their assistance when I had difficulties in the Eros construction. The problem that I had with the board added a special challenge that provided a learning experience for me. Again, thank you for the much appreciated support.
There was small box in my mailbox when I came home Monday evening from the Queen. I initially told myself that I would save the build for the weekend, but could not resist starting the board rebuild at 9:00 PM. I had it finished and installed by 10:30 and did the voltage check. Kreg was still a little high at 1.34VDC but a far cry from the former 4.91; all other readings were okay within the acceptable margins. I wanted to but didn't dare hook up the Eros to my system to see if I had sound in both channels. A failure would have devastated me and I would not have been able to go to sleep.
When I got home from work on Tuesday evening, I swapped out the defective on/off switch and hooked the Eros up to my Conrad Johnson preamp, and gave the Bottlehead Crack with Speedball upgrade the honor of the initial sound check instead of using my power amps and speaker set up. I put the Neville Brothers "Yellow Moon" disc on my turntable and crossed my fingers as the stylus hit the vinyl.
Man, I never new what I have been missing for the past 40 years of listening to records! The Eros soundstage was unbelievable, and its gain is very generous with my Soundsmith cartridge. The bass was solid and deep, and the highs caught me off guard. I guess I had become accustomed to the laid back sound of my CJ and the Eros had much more low end slam and sparkle on the upper end. I am very impressed with the Eros and it's not even broken in; sort of reminds me of the Crack sounding very good without any break in time. I would like to congratulate Paul Joppa, Doc, and the Queen on an exceptional audio component.
I would also like to extend a special thank you to Paul Joppa, Grainger, and Noskipallwd for their assistance when I had difficulties in the Eros construction. The problem that I had with the board added a special challenge that provided a learning experience for me. Again, thank you for the much appreciated support.
Noskipallwd
New member
Congrats on your success! I agree with your assessment of the sound quality, it does sound great right out of the box. It will get better though. Before I built the Eros I found myself listening to my digital rig more often, mainly for ease of use. Listening to vinyl most of the time now, thanks to the Eros.
Cheers,
Shawn
Cheers,
Shawn
Grainger49
New member
I'm with Shawn, after my Eros build I have hardly turned on the CD player.
azrockitman
New member
This is a great read for someone expecting his new Eros.
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